Amazon Sucks Big-Time!
- Thread starter Santa
- Start date
erik.calco
Solar Badger
We're all like minded individuals or we wouldn't be here. But being able to discuss deep topics is an important aspect of any civil society. We should always use that common base to recognize our likeness but not be afraid to acknowledge and discuss our differences. Geez I sound like a hippy atm, but I'm a redneck from TN. Lol
erik.calco
Solar Badger
I'm really... really... really... trying to not continue the conversation because I know it can go all night and I'm tired and would rather have it outside this forum... but... I will say...
Ped, I think we have a lot more in common than difference, which is why a part of me really wants to continue the conversation. You would not be the first person who I started a conversation world's apart on world-view, only to reach incredible common ground after 12 hours of beers... not because we changed our views so much as we simply realized we agreed a lot on the problems, and then, and only then, could we objectively talk about solutions.
Ped, I think we have a lot more in common than difference, which is why a part of me really wants to continue the conversation. You would not be the first person who I started a conversation world's apart on world-view, only to reach incredible common ground after 12 hours of beers... not because we changed our views so much as we simply realized we agreed a lot on the problems, and then, and only then, could we objectively talk about solutions.
Lol...*sigh* ima go there cause its friday. I know, I annoy myself.
Ok
Im aware marx was opposed to private property. To me that doesnt define communism at all though. I wish we could debate on its merit alone. I was dancing around saying that the whole time.
There im done. Sorry
Ok
Im aware marx was opposed to private property. To me that doesnt define communism at all though. I wish we could debate on its merit alone. I was dancing around saying that the whole time.
There im done. Sorry
erik.calco
Solar Badger
A good book I recommend you read is "The Birth of the Communist Manifesto". It's not pro or anti communism. It's just a historical record of its birth. I found it very interesting and enlightening. Check it out.
I think this is it: https://www.intpubnyc.com/product/birth-of-the-communist-manifesto/
I read it decades ago, before the Berlin wall fell.
erik.calco
Solar Badger
HAHA.. actually, I'm making my nightly Sidecar now. I'll edit in pict when it is made... Blackberry Bourbon Sidecar.
Last edited:
erik.calco
Solar Badger
Blackberry Bourbon Sidecar
3 parts Woodford Reserve Bourbon and 1 part Cognac, muddled blackberries, fresh squeezed lemon, Cointreau, Agave
3 parts Woodford Reserve Bourbon and 1 part Cognac, muddled blackberries, fresh squeezed lemon, Cointreau, Agave
For me, this thread is a lesson in civil discourse that we in America are losing touch with. People can have a civilized and passionate debate without getting personal about it or taking offense. Some well structured points have been made here and it really got my noggin knocking. I was actually having flashbacks to my college days in debate and philosophy classes. Those of you who seemed to be taking offense at this thread should really step back and re-read it and take it in for what it is. There's a reason for off topic sections in most forums. These kinds of discussions are important. The forum community had a discussion about wandering threads and the general consensus is that we have to let people be people and wandering threads simply reflect how we as people interact and grow. So long as the thread owner is fine with it and the wandering happens far enough along that the relevant info was passed at the top, then let it be organic.
If you find offense, report it and we will assess the complaint. But don't add to a discussion you wish to stop from happening, that's counterproductive.
If you find offense, report it and we will assess the complaint. But don't add to a discussion you wish to stop from happening, that's counterproductive.
BikeHelmet
New Member
Don't forget to break up companies like Apple too! 
They won't even let you download a free app without providing name, address, credit card number, security code, date of birth, mother's maiden name, etc.; and if you try to use a product without an AppleID, they'll nag you every 3 seconds to add one. And they still don't let you see all the data mining that they've done on you... but they do promise to protect your privacy. To me that's the same as Google, minus knowing what they know.
Breaking up Amazon would unfortunately just pave the way for Alibaba to come in and replace them. We wouldn't be any better off. Some of the Chinese giants are enormous companies that have their tendrils in dozens of sectors, and unfortunately have some state ties too that make them very powerful. Companies like Amazon seem to be the only ones keeping them at bay, for all their own flaws.
Google, for whatever it is worth - they at least offer you free services, and they've had real privacy controls and a way to check the data that they store about you for over a decade. Everyone forgets that they've been providing privacy tools longer than any other company. If you don't use them - your loss, their gain. You can have a Google account and tell them not to save or track your searches, and they will properly obey it. This puts them ahead of 90% of huge companies. Every 6 months Microsoft is apologising for ignoring privacy settings and scooping too much data accidentally. Facebook it's about every 2 months.
That's part of why the right leaning media hates them so much and smears them. They don't play by the same game. If you're into stocks as you claim, you must've noticed that their stock price responds differently than most others. They're almost functioning like a coop, rather than a capitalist for-profit corporation. But the members are their consumers, not their employees - they are working hard to automate everything so that no employees are needed in their eventual distribution network.
There are bad things to say about Amazon, and I just handed you some great points to build off of, but the traditional (and hyperbolic) capitalist dream (drive competitors out and jack up prices) is not one of them. They might just out compete every other company though, and hold profit margins so low that none choose to re-enter, because those companies would like to profit even if Amazon doesn't care. Then you've lost a free market, although companies were free to compete and chose not too... they'd have voluntarily ceded Amazon a monopoly rather than innovate and compete, because that's hard.
I'm actually okay with that. I'm a big believer in free markets encouraging innovation and advancement, plus prosperity for all those participating in them. But if other companies refuse to join in, I am fine with them getting out-done. Give me that innovation and advancement! If Amazon chooses to give the profit back to their consumers - that's fine too. That's what Vanguard did for the for-profit financial management industry. Vanguard ran like a coop and returned everything to its members, driving down MERs and fees. It's been good for consumers / investors, so I think Amazon's effect would be overall positive even if the landscape changes dramatically as companies come and go.
The only thing that I fear is when North American companies give up and decide not to bother trying. If you refuse to play or compete, you have absolutely no chance of success or victory.
They won't even let you download a free app without providing name, address, credit card number, security code, date of birth, mother's maiden name, etc.; and if you try to use a product without an AppleID, they'll nag you every 3 seconds to add one. And they still don't let you see all the data mining that they've done on you... but they do promise to protect your privacy. To me that's the same as Google, minus knowing what they know.Breaking up Amazon would unfortunately just pave the way for Alibaba to come in and replace them. We wouldn't be any better off. Some of the Chinese giants are enormous companies that have their tendrils in dozens of sectors, and unfortunately have some state ties too that make them very powerful. Companies like Amazon seem to be the only ones keeping them at bay, for all their own flaws.
Google, for whatever it is worth - they at least offer you free services, and they've had real privacy controls and a way to check the data that they store about you for over a decade. Everyone forgets that they've been providing privacy tools longer than any other company. If you don't use them - your loss, their gain. You can have a Google account and tell them not to save or track your searches, and they will properly obey it. This puts them ahead of 90% of huge companies. Every 6 months Microsoft is apologising for ignoring privacy settings and scooping too much data accidentally. Facebook it's about every 2 months.
No. They're not that kind of business. They relentlessly pursue growth and advancement. Technological progress. I honestly think Bezos's dream might be to build a solarsystem wide distribution and shipping network. If their competitors go bankrupt, they will almost certainly drop prices as they attain further scale, the shareholders will love it, the stock will rise even further making them all rich, and products will get cheaper for consumers.
That's part of why the right leaning media hates them so much and smears them. They don't play by the same game. If you're into stocks as you claim, you must've noticed that their stock price responds differently than most others. They're almost functioning like a coop, rather than a capitalist for-profit corporation. But the members are their consumers, not their employees - they are working hard to automate everything so that no employees are needed in their eventual distribution network.
There are bad things to say about Amazon, and I just handed you some great points to build off of, but the traditional (and hyperbolic) capitalist dream (drive competitors out and jack up prices) is not one of them. They might just out compete every other company though, and hold profit margins so low that none choose to re-enter, because those companies would like to profit even if Amazon doesn't care. Then you've lost a free market, although companies were free to compete and chose not too... they'd have voluntarily ceded Amazon a monopoly rather than innovate and compete, because that's hard.
I'm actually okay with that. I'm a big believer in free markets encouraging innovation and advancement, plus prosperity for all those participating in them. But if other companies refuse to join in, I am fine with them getting out-done. Give me that innovation and advancement! If Amazon chooses to give the profit back to their consumers - that's fine too. That's what Vanguard did for the for-profit financial management industry. Vanguard ran like a coop and returned everything to its members, driving down MERs and fees. It's been good for consumers / investors, so I think Amazon's effect would be overall positive even if the landscape changes dramatically as companies come and go.
The only thing that I fear is when North American companies give up and decide not to bother trying. If you refuse to play or compete, you have absolutely no chance of success or victory.
Santa
.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2019
- Messages
- 612
I don't mind the civil debates here, I just don't have time at the moment to read everyone's posts and respond. I am on a time crunch. I have a lot to say about this subject, just can't now. Thanks.
Santa
.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2019
- Messages
- 612
Everything's fine with me. I know I am going to let some of you boys and girls down, but....Santa is a she, LOL.
Haha! That's awesome!!
erik.calco
Solar Badger
@BikeHelmet
The only issue I have with your argument is the premise that Amazon would never raise prices later. The game in growing markets has always been to keep margins low to increase market share so they can increase margins later with less competition. Once you achieve pricing power market share and economies of scale, it is the ease with which you can bring back low margins that create barriers to entry for little companies.
Believing in a premise that a company will continue to behave in a certain benevolent manner when growth is no longer the primary object is faith. On what do you base your faith?
The only issue I have with your argument is the premise that Amazon would never raise prices later. The game in growing markets has always been to keep margins low to increase market share so they can increase margins later with less competition. Once you achieve pricing power market share and economies of scale, it is the ease with which you can bring back low margins that create barriers to entry for little companies.
Believing in a premise that a company will continue to behave in a certain benevolent manner when growth is no longer the primary object is faith. On what do you base your faith?
I worked for Walmart for 10 years. Pre and post Sam Walton. In the pre years, I had faith in the goodness of that company and the philosophy under which it operated. Within a week of his passing, I knew it was all over. One universal constant is that nothing stays the same.
erik.calco
Solar Badger
I've seen this over and over and over ... Microsoft... Google... IBM... Sun... Apple... One exception is Oracle. They have always sucked since they tried to move beyond the database.
Google before: "do no evil"
Similar threads
