14s 48v Nissan leaf G2 BMS

[schmism]

The other obvious choice is to pick an inverter that accepts remote commands for disconnect and just use a whatever current you want BMS to do the ballanceing and signal the inverter to shut down when something is out of limit. Then you pull whatever amps you want off the pack without going "through" the BMS

 

[yah]

Hello schmism,
Techdirectclub The people seem to be nice There but most of the time I talked to Fred because he was more knowledgeable and this was the BMS That I bought in the picture for $65, so I thought I would contact them again for 27 more BMS kit like I got for $65 and see if they would make a deal for buying 27 of them, but they told me they didn’t sell that no more but they did sell one that looks like this one for around $130 that comes with a DC circuit breaker and a couple metal panels which I did not want or pay $130 so I asked him what about just a BMS by itself and I’ll buy 27 of those and what kind of deal would you make me and they replied if you buy 100 of them will sell them to you for $50 each, so I Was not to happy.

But to answer your question the BMS seemed to work just fine although I never did try to see if the temperature sensors ever worked but other than that it always kept things at the same voltage on all banks.

And I’ll check out that video I do appreciate the info And thank you for your time Jeff

 

[yah]

Hello yah,
Thank you for the info and I’ll check out the video I appreciate it And thank you for your time Jeff

 

[yah]

Hello schmism,
I’m not sure if the inverters that I just purchased the SMA SI6048 has that option,
On the 56 battery set up from Techdirectclub I bought a Victron smart battery protect 48 V 100 amp and you can go into your phone via Bluetooth and set the voltage cut off what you want the only thing is I never got it to work I don’t know if you need a relay to make it happen so I just use a buzzer when the voltage gets low that’s what’s taped on the side.
That is a good idea but at this point I’m just worried about the batteries going out of balance even though I only plan on going down 10% in use that’s why I bought all the batteries so hopefully they will last a while.
One of my friends in the area he has a lead acid battery bank that’s huge and they’ve lasted for 30 years but he only uses 5% of his battery bank I thought that was impressive of the age.
Thank you for your time Jeff

 

[schmism]

this was the BMS That I bought in the picture for $65,

I found that BMS several weeks ago when I was putting together my build, but then as I have been ordering parts I couldnt find it again. I guess now i know why.

If your going to move away from the existing BMS you have on the packs in order to have one system that is all configured the same let me know, I'd buy those off you for my project.

 

[yah]

Hello Schmism,
Sorry about that but I will be keeping the BMS’s, but I thought I would mention I could not find any numbers on the BMS’s I have unless I probably open it up, but here is a picture on Tech direct club of the BMS, and I guess the maker is JBD Which I found on AliExpress, see pictures:
If you contact JBD on AliExpress in the picture you see this number jbd-hp28sa and I’m thinking that they might be the same one who’s making the BMS’s for techdirectclub.
Just guessing I don’t know unless were to contact JBD.

My next step is to check out Orion Junior and I might be just using the four packs of Nissan leaf batteries and leave the 56 batteries I already have with a BMS alone, so many decisions so little brain cells.

I hope this might help on the BMS’s if you do find any information please let me know.
Thank you for your time Jeff

 

[Ampster]

My next step is to check out Orion Junior and I might be just using the four packs of Nissan leaf batteries and leave the 56 batteries I already have with a BMS alone, so many decisions so little brain cells.

Yes, you could fire up those two big inverters with those eight packs in parallel while you are testing and disassembling all those other modules. That would also give you time to install those solar panels and get some production going. Let me know if you have any questions about the Orion.

 

[yah]

Hi Ampster,
This is true I need to stick a pin in my butt and go faster especially before the snow flies and I haven’t even gotten wood yet, but I do have the pipe here’s something that I thought was crude but it seem to work I use it down by the creek to pump water over 1000 feet for irrigation, I used drill pipe and And 3 inch muffler clamps with the Unistrut, and it gives me about 2 to 3 gpm of water with probably a 50 foot incline over 1000 feet not too bad.

But back to the Orion so if I used four Nissan leaf packs like we discussed how much do you think I would have to spend would it be more than $500 and what about cell monitoring temperature sensors I’m not familiar with the product, Usually like Batrium charges more $ for all the sensors.
Thank you for your time Jeff

 

[Ampster]

But back to the Orion so if I used four Nissan leaf packs like we discussed how much do you think I would have to spend would it be more than $500 and what about cell monitoring temperature sensors I’m not familiar with the product, Usually like Batrium charges more $ for all the sensors.

You would need four BMSs if you are going to do 4 separate packs. I am happy to give you ideas and support based on my experience and use of an Orion. You are going be happier with the prices you get quoted from a seller because I would just be guessing based on old information. I would have to do the same search for vendors as you would. I have bought Orions from electriccarpartscompany in Utah and evolve electrics in Colorado. The thermistor expansion for the Orion are not expensive. You can get them delivered within a week and think you could limp along with your existing batteries and get to know your inverter capabilities before you need to worry about a BMS.

For example, I don't know if your inverters and charge controller combination would play well with one pack or separate packs. Those are all questions you can answer in real time with your eight packs that you can easily configure as two packs or one as far as the inverter and charge controller are concerned. You have the perfect lab to answer those questions without having to invest anything except your time. I can garantee your thinking will evolve over time and based on the input you get from others. Since we started this dialogue there have been some great examples of huge Nissan Leaf packs. It might be interesting to see what they are doing for monitoring and balancing if any is needed. The more cells you parallel together the better your odds are that they will stay balanced. The important questions to ask those guys is what they did to test and bin their cells as they were assembling their packs. That is going to be a long process.

 

[yah]

Hi Ampster,
I just wanted to say you make a lot of valid points, I guess when I get the SMA inverters in I can try hooking them up to the 56 battery pack.
It kind of sounds like with Orion I would probably be spending around 2000 and Batrium I think they gave up on me and they referred me to go to second life storage and they were never consistent on telling me what I would need or what their system would handle as far as I understood, but then again I don’t explain things very well I guess I should’ve went to Harvard yeah right.

Well back to installing my irrigation lines for the fruit trees, thank you for your time Jeff

 

[yah]

Hi Ampster,
Just a crazy thought if I took the 245 Nissan Leaf batteries in packs of seven to make the 58 V per pack,
Do you think I could get by with buying 35) BMS’s at 15-20 amps
The reason I ask I watched this guy on YouTube and he has a large Nissan leaf battery pack at 48 V with no BMS but he said the draw On the multiple packs of seven batteries like the set up that I have would never go past 10 A for a draw because there’s so many batteries.
Just wondering your thoughts on it, Thanks for your time Jeff

You can get an Orion Jr for $500 and I have used one for 5 years. I dont know much about the others. I am writing this from a Supercharger on the I5 in Central California returning from a quick trip to Los Angeles. My pack is only a few days old and I wanted to check on it i just went to the connect.orionbms.com sight and saw my pack is charging at 27 Amps and voltage is 53.5 after dipping to 52 volts overnight.
have the WiFi Connect installed and I love the information. Your situation might be different with used cells. You may want some redundancy by splitting your pack into pieces. If I were in your position the most I would do would be 4 packs, two for each inverter.
I will have to give more thought to this but some of it should relate to your goals. How do you value redundancy versus having one big pack that would be hard to disassemble if one cell in the middle of a 48 inch long group went bad? That is a lot of interconnects to unbolt before you took the pressure off the allthread holding all 35 together.

 

[Ampster]

Yes that would be one way. That is still a lot of BMSs to wire. Maybe something in between that and 35 in parallel. I don't remember how many Amps you were designing this system to provide but if you put your modules in parallel groups of 5 or 7 then that would be fewer BMSs. That is around 50 lbs per group which is still easy for one person to move around. You would need to fabricate buss bars. No matter what you did you would need th make buss bars because there are not enough of those small ones with two holes to make 35 separate packs of seven modules each. It seems to be a balance between lowering the cost of BMSs by putting more modules in parallel and the physical size of those groups.

 

[yah]

Hi Ampster,
So for the BMS’s it would be either five BMS’s to buy with higher amps or 35 lower amps.

wondering just to make it simple my thoughts were to use my Costco wire rack with six racks or shelves, and use the cement floor at the very bottom to make a seventh shelf basically which I would put a pack of 7 Times five per shelf and then connect each pack of seven going straight down to each shelf which would make seven, since each shelf is supposed to hold 1000 pounds evenly, And I think but not sure each battery weighs around 12 pounds so 12×35=420lb’s per shelf.

But just wondering on the BMS’s does that sound about right?

Thanks for your time Jeff

Yes that would be one way. That is still a lot of BMSs to wire. Maybe something in between that and 35 in parallel. I don't remember how many Amps you were designing this system to provide but if you put your modules in parallel groups of 5 or 7 then that would be fewer BMSs. That is around 50 lbs per group which is still easy for one person to move around. You would need to fabricate buss bars. No matter what you did you would need th make buss bars because there are not enough of those small ones with two holes to make 35 separate packs of seven modules each. It seems to be a balance between lowering the cost of BMSs by putting more modules in parallel and the physical size of those groups.

 

[Ampster]

So for the BMS’s it would be either five BMS’s to buy with higher amps or 35 lower amps.

wondering just to make it simple my thoughts were to use my Costco wire rack with six racks or shelves, and use the cement floor at the very bottom to make a seventh shelf basically which I would put a pack of 7 Times five per shelf and then connect each pack of seven going straight down to each shelf which would make seven, since each shelf is supposed to hold 1000 pounds evenly, And I think but not sure each battery weighs around 12 pounds so 12×35=420lb’s per shelf.

But just wondering on the BMS’s does that sound about right?

My calculation on the width of the shelves is 63 inches. (7 times 9 inches wide) if that shelving comes that wide. I am assuming that the modules would be flat but another orientation would work out differently. The other thing to consider is that they typical BMS wire doesn't come that long so you would need to make extensions for the small sensing wires. As far as sizing the BMSs, did you ever figure out your maximum load for the entire system?

 

[yah]

Hi Ampster,
I’m sorry I never did get the max load yet,
I’m guessing that would be around 6000w for a very short time.

My shelving is 48 inches wide by 18 inches deep and 72 inches high.

I’m actually putting five battery packs per shelf which would equal 35 batteries and with seven shelves that would be 245, like in the picture but of course different configuration.

That is true I would have to extend the BMS leads which is not a big deal if it’s only five BMS’s, i’m also wondering how much of a difference efficiency of having five BMS’s compared to the 35, May I ask what you think?
So many things to think about my noodle hurting pretty bad

Thank you for your time Jeff

 

[Ampster]

i’m also wondering how much of a difference efficiency of having five BMS’s compared to the 35, May I ask what you think?

I don't think there would be a difference in electrical efficiency. It is more about your time and efficiency. With any set of batteries there is always the probability of some deteriorating sooner than others. To me having more groups makes that a whole lot easier than one big pack with 35 modules all paralleled when you have to do some maintenance and replace a module.
What I would do is more a function of my age. A year ago I made parallel groups of 6 Nissan Leaf Modules. Today I need a cart to move them, so my choice would be to go with groups of 5 but you may be able to handle 7 in a group more easily and that would save you money on BMSs.

 

[yah]

Hi Amster,
That’s true that’s why I dismissed putting the batteries back to back 35 of them on one shelf bolted together, because of what you said that would make life not so easy if I had to replace one, that’s why I thought having a seven pack would be the way to go.

I did a few minutes ago hooked up a little toaster oven and it drew 1420 W and it was using 30 A at the inverter and also my fluke meter read 3.6 to 3.8 amps per battery pack.

I also thought of this if I was going crazy and was using 12,000 W that would come out to around 7 A per battery pack if there were 35 of them, so I’m guessing if I went down the road of buying 35 BMS’s I would only need like a 15 amp BMS’s Or if I went down the other road to buy five 100 amp BMS’s.

May I ask what do you think?
Thank you for your time Jeff

 

[Ampster]

May I ask what do you think?

I like data. I would get five BMSs that I can view from my phone or a laptop and know how things are doing before I would get 35 inexpensive ones.
How is it going taking apart those coomplete battteries?

 

[schmism]

5-7 cells in parallel and 7 of those in series for one pack with 1 bms seems like a happy medium for current output on a BMS but also limiting the number of BMS required, while still keeping indviual packs fairly small for maintenance.

 

[schmism]

How is it going taking apart those coomplete battteries?

Only took me about an 2hr to pull my gen 1 pack apart. However they also have a serviceable seal on the top clamshell as opposed to the goo they use to seal the pack on gen2 which means mine just lifted off.

I spent almost as much time extracting the bus bars and ballance leads out of the orange plastic as it took to get the cells unbolted and take apart.