6000xp with a condenser load?

[RostadKatt]

Hi fellows,

My inverter 6000XP is located fairly close to my HVAC condenser unit ( opposite side of the wall ) that is wired to a 50A breaker in the main panel. Is it reasonable to pull these wires and connect to the 6000xp grid side, and then try to connect the condenser unit directly to the load side ( with hopes of being able to run the condenser for a majority of the time? )

What can possible go wrong here? What should I pay attention too?

 

[ScrotusGobbleBottom]

Umm if your condensor has a 50 amp breaker it may pull 42 amps constantly. That would be 10,000 watts at 240v. That isnt doable

 

[ksmithaz1]

Umm if your condensor has a 50 amp breaker it may pull 42 amps constantly. That would be 10,000 watts at 240v. That isnt doable

Look it up for your compressor. 50A is a standard breaker size, mine is on a 50A breaker as well, handles starting spikes. 4T unit likely pulls no more than about 20 amps continuous worst case. RLA is like 96A. You will want a Micro-Air Easy Start (NOT JUST A SOFT START KIT).

 

[ksmithaz1]

You probably can with a Micro-Air to keep the cold start (and hot weather) starting amps down. Discussion assumes you have a 4T unit (or smaller), with similar characteristics to mine... It might be close.

Given you have a 25A inverter, with some surge capacity, you want to keep usage around 20A (80%), technically 3 or 4 hours at most over 80%, so slightly lower over intervals might be OK. Again look up your HVAC, here's mine for example:



It's a Goodman 4T, the last two columns 4T (and 5T). Spec is 26.7A total, reality is somewhat lower as expected. "North America" could mean Death Valley, but I doubt you are going to get much worse than here in Phoenix in July:



4 Ton package unit, July 20th in Phoenix, daytime temps > 115F. HVAC usage graph. Peaked at 4953W / 240v = 21A, granularity is 5min. This is as bad as it gets. In August when the highest temps were around 110F it peaked around 4600W / 20A. Right now in April it's more like 3500W or around 15A. More modest climate I would expect maybe 4000-4200W, YMMV.

Assuming that is ALL you want to run, probably be just fine, depending on your HVAC. Ought to be a way to have it pass thru a 40/50A from the main panel for when the inverter is down via the grid lugs, use the 6000 as an ATS. You will want/need a minimal amount of battery to smooth the Solar, 100A (5KW) output may be a little light, I'd get two rackmounts, 10KWH, it may need to start (and run) the thing when the sun goes behind a cloud or something, the Micro Air helps tremendously but it still draws an awful lot all of a sudden on startup, that is the hurdle.

Get a meter/monitor on the line, see what you have. You might start with the Micro-Air installation, then swap the 50A breaker with a 40A on the panel you have. No tripping, you might be OK. Get a Square D or other HVAC rated breaker, most are these days anyway. I'd Wire the load lugs from the inverter thru a standalone 40A breaker to the compressor, and peel the 40A in the main panel over onto the grid lugs on the 6000. Then set the inverter for shutdown at 10-15% SOC or something, and let the grid take over.

Very doable IMNSHO, if the inverter can handle the starting surge.

 

[RostadKatt]

You probably can with a Micro-Air to keep the cold start (and hot weather) starting amps down. Discussion assumes you have a 4T unit (or smaller), with similar characteristics to mine... It might be close.

Great! Currently have a 3 ton trane unit, but will eventually replace it with a inverter based heat pump to lower the amperage even further. So the Micro-Air Easy Start are better then many other soft starters in your opinion?

Suppose my current wires to the condensator ( that I would connect to the grid lugs on my inverter for extra juice in bypass mode ) only have 2 hot and 1 ground, but no neutral, do you suppose I have to pull a neutral to the inverter from somewhere else? I guess that might be hard for you to answer if your not familiar with the 6000xp inverter G-N bonding settings.

"Ought to be a way to have it pass thru a 40/50A from the main panel for when the inverter is down via the grid lugs, use the 6000 as an ATS." Not sure I follow you here, how would my inverter be able to ATS if its down? You mean when batteries are drained? I have a 14kwh pack.

I do live a little north of your area, so thanks a ton for that detailed information.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Great! Currently have a 3 ton trane unit, but will eventually replace it with a inverter based heat pump to lower the amperage even further. So the Micro-Air Easy Start are better then many other soft starters in your opinion?

Suppose my current wires to the condensator ( that I would connect to the grid lugs on my inverter for extra juice in bypass mode ) only have 2 hot and 1 ground, but no neutral, do you suppose I have to pull a neutral to the inverter from somewhere else? I guess that might be hard for you to answer if your not familiar with the 6000xp inverter G-N bonding settings.

"Ought to be a way to have it pass thru a 40/50A from the main panel for when the inverter is down via the grid lugs, use the 6000 as an ATS." Not sure I follow you here, how would my inverter be able to ATS if its down? You mean when batteries are drained? I have a 14kwh pack.

I do live a little north of your area, so thanks a ton for that detailed information.

There is another outfit that makes a soft-start unit like the Micro Air, similar priced, couple hundred, can't remember names. A normal soft-start kit is just an extra capacitor that kicks out once the unit is running. It helps but does not control current, it just pushes the start coil a bit more.

You only need L1/L2 and ground to the compressor. It does not need 110v (Neutral, see below).

MAIN PANEL 40A <--> EG4-6000 "GRID" (Replace the 50A you pull out along with the wire going to the compressor)
-- 8/3 Wire (40A) L1/L2/N/G
EG4-6000 "LOAD" <--> DIN BOX / 40A
-- 8/2 Wire (40A) L1/L2/G If you use leftover 8/3, don't connect white/neutral on either end, pull it if you can.
DIN BOX / 40A <--> COMPRESSOR (The wire you pulled out of the main panel. You can Jbox if you need a bit more length)
-- Existing wire, if aluminum and you need a j-box to extend the run mind the connectors, should be 8/2

The 6000 supports "pass-thru" to a "critical loads" panel. If all you want to run is your compressor, you don't need another panel, though that may make sense, you should draw it, post the drawing. When the inverter is running it will feed power to the DIN BOX breaker from the inverter using solar/battery based on settings (SOC, etc). If the inverter shuts off it will flip the relays disconnecting inverter output to "LOAD" and activate the relay connecting "GRID" to "LOAD", thus powering the DIN BOX from your main panel thru the EG4-6000.

Draw it/Sketch it on paper, get it straight in your head. You can get a sub-panel instead of the DIN box, but honestly, If you want to run your AC you are likely not going to want to run any other loads, though you could use it for a convenience outlet or something. If you decide to scale up, you will probably want a much larger sub-panel, need bigger wire, etc, etc, etc, and a DIN box is cheap and simple to tear out if you do. If you go sub-panel drag 8/3 from the EG4 to it do not bond N(eutral) to G(round) in the sub-panel.

 

[RostadKatt]

There is another outfit that makes a soft-start unit like the Micro Air, similar priced, couple hundred, can't remember names. A normal soft-start kit is just an extra capacitor that kicks out once the unit is running. It helps but does not control current, it just pushes the start coil a bit more.

Those where some awesome points for me to consider, thank you for that detailed information!