Components do not seem correct

[mran]

Wow! If I'm reading that correctly you're using ~9KWh average?

It's definitely doable but may be quite costly.

I'll reply with some more details later today.

Do you have any idea how many panels you could mount?

I am going to ground mount; I have acres available

 

[42OhmsPA]

A fully Off-Grid system for that amount of usage is going to be expensive. I would strongly suggest you perform an energy audit and identify areas where you could replace inefficient appliances. Just as an example lets say SS designs a system that will cost $50,000. I'd bet that you could spend 10 to 15K of that budget on energy reduction and then could install a smaller solar system that costs less. In this scenario you're getting some new appliances and solar for about the same $$.

Before purchasing anything, make a list of the big energy consumers (appliances, not your wife and kids, LOL) in your house and post it here so we can make suggestions. Also, your present electrical panel layout and available space for solar panels either on your roof or ground mount. If you go through a rough design process yourself, that education makes it that much harder for a vendor to rip you off or confuse you with inaccurate information.

Replacement of some appliances may qualify you for tax credits.

@mran I'm requoting the posts above from the 1st page since they have some good info.

The emporia data is helpful.

Next I would recommend you pick up a clamp meter with inrush to determine your well pump surge. I assume you definitely want water if the grid goes down...
My well pump was my largest surge load next to the air compressor, I never clamped my old AC compressor since I added a mini split.

I've been running "tier 2" equipment with the grid as a backup. Your daily usage is ~6x mine but I still think you'll find my "build thread" helpful, it's in the about section of my profile.
It's a long wandering thread that touches on anything from my LF to HF experiences to building ground mounts and adding additional DIY battery packs.

I think it would be smart to start with an inverter /AIO that is parallelable out of the box.
This would allow you split out an AC panel and run it off solar with the grid as a backup. You could build a 'small' system to start and expand as you learn more.

I'm perfectly happy with my SRNE I imported but wouldn't hesitate to spend my money at Current Connected on some tier 1 like Midnite and Victron equipment. (in the future I will be spending a lot of money with them). There are many other choices like in the tier 1 market, like Schneider that's also on my list.

Hope my rambling is helpful.

 

[mran]

@mran I'm requoting the posts above from the 1st page since they have some good info.

The emporia data is helpful.

Next I would recommend you pick up a clamp meter with inrush to determine your well pump surge. I assume you definitely want water if the grid goes down...
My well pump was my largest surge load next to the air compressor, I never clamped my old AC compressor since I added a mini split.

I've been running "tier 2" equipment with the grid as a backup. Your daily usage is ~6x mine but I still think you'll find my "build thread" helpful, it's in the about section of my profile.
It's a long wandering thread that touches on anything from my LF to HF experiences to building ground mounts and adding additional DIY battery packs.

I think it would be smart to start with an inverter /AIO that is parallelable out of the box.
This would allow you split out an AC panel and run it off solar with the grid as a backup. You could build a 'small' system to start and expand as you learn more.

I'm perfectly happy with my SRNE I imported but wouldn't hesitate to spend my money at Current Connected on some tier 1 like Midnite and Victron equipment. (in the future I will be spending a lot of money with them). There are many other choices like in the tier 1 market, like Schneider that's also on my list.

Hope my rambling is helpful.

Hi, Thank you for the information and suggestions. The house is only 2 years old so I'm not sure any of the appliances would be that inefficient. I don't know if the Emporia meter will work on the individual sensors since the main sensors don't work due to amperage. I will contact them and ask. The house is larger than usual because of the in-law apartment in it however there isn't anything we can do about lowering electrical use than we already have. I did just get a separate clamp meter that I will put on the well pump to see what the surges are; the Emporia data that I have can't be correct.

I had a feeling this may not be possible and definitely wouldn't be easy. I really want a solution for the safety of my family.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Hi, Thank you for the information and suggestions. The house is only 2 years old so I'm not sure any of the appliances would be that inefficient. I don't know if the Emporia meter will work on the individual sensors since the main sensors don't work due to amperage. I will contact them and ask. The house is larger than usual because of the in-law apartment in it however there isn't anything we can do about lowering electrical use than we already have. I did just get a separate clamp meter that I will put on the well pump to see what the surges are; the Emporia data that I have can't be correct.

I had a feeling this may not be possible and definitely wouldn't be easy. I really want a solution for the safety of my family.

Focus on powering the essential loads first..... It will easily be possible.
My solar journey started with a 1500W inverter and 200W of panels to keep my coal stoker burning when the power went out. In under 2 years the rest of my house is included.

 

[hwy17]

coal stoker

Pennsylvania confirmed.

 

[mran]

@mran I'm requoting the posts above from the 1st page since they have some good info.

The emporia data is helpful.

Next I would recommend you pick up a clamp meter with inrush to determine your well pump surge. I assume you definitely want water if the grid goes down...
My well pump was my largest surge load next to the air compressor, I never clamped my old AC compressor since I added a mini split.

I've been running "tier 2" equipment with the grid as a backup. Your daily usage is ~6x mine but I still think you'll find my "build thread" helpful, it's in the about section of my profile.
It's a long wandering thread that touches on anything from my LF to HF experiences to building ground mounts and adding additional DIY battery packs.

I think it would be smart to start with an inverter /AIO that is parallelable out of the box.
This would allow you split out an AC panel and run it off solar with the grid as a backup. You could build a 'small' system to start and expand as you learn more.

I'm perfectly happy with my SRNE I imported but wouldn't hesitate to spend my money at Current Connected on some tier 1 like Midnite and Victron equipment. (in the future I will be spending a lot of money with them). There are many other choices like in the tier 1 market, like Schneider that's also on my list.

Hope my rambling is helpful.

Hi,

Would I be able to satisfy my power requirements with 2 of these?

EG4 6000XP Off-Grid Inverter | 8000W PV Input | 6000W Output | 480V VOC Input | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | All-In-One Solar Inverter

The EG4 6000XP is a cutting-edge 48V split-phase, off-grid inverter and charger, designed to revolutionize your energy needs. With an impressive 8kW of PV input capacity and an efficient 6kW continuous power output, it also serves as a battery 140A charger. What sets it apart is its scalability...

signaturesolar.com

Thank you!

 

[42OhmsPA]

Hi,

Would I be able to satisfy my power requirements with 2 of these?

EG4 6000XP Off-Grid Inverter | 8000W PV Input | 6000W Output | 480V VOC Input | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | All-In-One Solar Inverter

The EG4 6000XP is a cutting-edge 48V split-phase, off-grid inverter and charger, designed to revolutionize your energy needs. With an impressive 8kW of PV input capacity and an efficient 6kW continuous power output, it also serves as a battery 140A charger. What sets it apart is its scalability...

signaturesolar.com

Thank you!

I would think so but it's really hard to say for sure.
They are also in stock at Current Connected. https://www.currentconnected.com/product/eg4-6000xp-inverter/

If you can wait to buy there are supposed to be a few new AIOs coming to the market this year, 10KW or more and able to be paralleled.

 

[G00SE]

I have a well pump and heat pumps. It looks like I will need to get a permit however information is unclear on inspections.

Thanks again

If you would like to be permitted and grid tied I think that may help narrow down some of your options. With 2-200a panels you might find dual 6000xp with 50a pass through as potentially limiting at times (especially looking at your graph on page 1)
It really comes down to how you’d aspire to tackle the project. Full bore to potential grid replacement all the way down to a minimal system that can cover critical loads in times of grid outage.
That alone will dictate budget.

I’m just arm chairing now, but I would personally look at something larger than a pair of 6kw inverters. Especially with your usage.
Later this year there is supposed to be a highly anticipated 10kw midnite all in one. There’s also supposed to be a luxpower 8kw (and eg4 sister) that has a similar premise to their 6k and 18kpv.
Even only 2kw more per inverter of potential output is considerable.
Of course there’s the regular players from sol-ark and eg4 18kpv which both seem to be proving great values

Fortunately, panels and inverters are reasonably affordable. It’s the batteries that really bite you, pending how much off grid storage you desire

 

[DougfromdaUP]

For a one hour period of the day you sent data for you used 12kWh- the entire rated output of both inverters. No way two 6000 watt inverters could handle your entire load.

Can you get peak usage info? That is, peak watts used, not watt hours for a period.

 

[G00SE]

For a one hour period of the day you sent data for you used 12kWh- the entire rated output of both inverters. No way two 6000 watt inverters could handle your entire load.

Can you get peak usage info? That is, peak watts used, not watt hours for a period.

I think the issue is he is using emporia but has 2-200a panels. So it’s a challenge to capture all data

 

[mran]

If you would like to be permitted and grid tied I think that may help narrow down some of your options. With 2-200a panels you might find dual 6000xp with 50a pass through as potentially limiting at times (especially looking at your graph on page 1)
It really comes down to how you’d aspire to tackle the project. Full bore to potential grid replacement all the way down to a minimal system that can cover critical loads in times of grid outage.
That alone will dictate budget.

I’m just arm chairing now, but I would personally look at something larger than a pair of 6kw inverters. Especially with your usage.
Later this year there is supposed to be a highly anticipated 10kw midnite all in one. There’s also supposed to be a luxpower 8kw (and eg4 sister) that has a similar premise to their 6k and 18kpv.
Even only 2kw more per inverter of potential output is considerable.
Of course there’s the regular players from sol-ark and eg4 18kpv which both seem to be proving great values

Fortunately, panels and inverters are reasonably affordable. It’s the batteries that really bite you, pending how much off grid storage you desire

Hi, thank you for the information. I do not want to tie back into the grid which I believe the 18kpvs are made to do. I should be able to run 3 x 6k's at the same time, is that correct? Or I can wait. The problem with waiting is that the batteries and panels get more expensive as time passes and I've been trying to get this done for 6 months now. I live in East TN, if I'm going to install it, then I need to get it ordered and ready to install before it's 90 and humid out.

 

[mran]

For a one hour period of the day you sent data for you used 12kWh- the entire rated output of both inverters. No way two 6000 watt inverters could handle your entire load.

Can you get peak usage info? That is, peak watts used, not watt hours for a period.

Peak watts for what period of time? I can run a report with my power company and see what information they have. Can't I also run 3 x 6k's to solve that problem?

 

[DougfromdaUP]

Peak watts, period. That's what your inverters have to supply. Check how much overload your your inverters are rated for by time period.

For a huge system like this ( the 80kWh daily usage listed in post #1 is almost three times national average, the 200+ for the January day is about seven times) you likely have huge instantaneous demands.

You should also look at power factor, if available, and do your calculations in VA, not watts. The amperage you use can be way more than Watts divided by voltage.

 

[G00SE]

Hi, thank you for the information. I do not want to tie back into the grid which I believe the 18kpvs are made to do. I should be able to run 3 x 6k's at the same time, is that correct? Or I can wait. The problem with waiting is that the batteries and panels get more expensive as time passes and I've been trying to get this done for 6 months now. I live in East TN, if I'm going to install it, then I need to get it ordered and ready to install before it's 90 and humid out.

3-6000xp cost 4500 bucks. Imo at that point the 18kpv makes sense.
That’s the main reason for my comment about a larger inverter set up.
I wouldn’t balk at running 4-6000xp myself if I decided that was my preferred inverter.
If you don’t desire grid tie and don’t need to pass inspection I’d seriously consider a pair of Victron inverters. Current connected sells a complete kit of 2-10kw Quattros which are also low frequency so combined would provide surge capability of 100a or more.

I will push back on your price concerns though.
Waiting until December net me the cheapest prices I’ve ever seen for panels and batteries and the forecasted outlook for this year isn’t very Rosie for the companies

 

[mran]

3-6000xp cost 4500 bucks. Imo at that point the 18kpv makes sense.
That’s the main reason for my comment about a larger inverter set up.
I wouldn’t balk at running 4-6000xp myself if I decided that was my preferred inverter.
If you don’t desire grid tie and don’t need to pass inspection I’d seriously consider a pair of Victron inverters. Current connected sells a complete kit of 2-10kw Quattros which are also low frequency so combined would provide surge capability of 100a or more.

I will push back on your price concerns though.
Waiting until December net me the cheapest prices I’ve ever seen for panels and batteries and the forecasted outlook for this year isn’t very Rosie for the companies

Thank you for the information, I sincerely appreciate it. Are the Victron inverters as DIY-friendly as EG4? The system Signature Solar spec'd me without any peak usage information was 2 x 18kpv's so I'm very glad I've posted here.

 

[42OhmsPA]

The Victron is a little more involved since you have to wire separate components but everything is modular for ease of troubleshooting, modifying and any unlikely repairs.

In my opinion it's pretty basic wiring and allows a lot more flexibility.

If you're considering the modular route also look at Midnite and Schneider.

I'd try to get your emporia reading accurately so you know your true peak sustained loads before making a decision.

The Schneider XW Pro has a truly impressive surge rating, you may be fine with one, two max. The downfall is they aren't as easy to setup from a software standpoint from what I've read. They are pretty much bulletproof hardware wise.

 

[G00SE]

@mran theres more components to it could be a bit overwhelming but I don’t know of a solar company with more publicly available schematics and diagrams than Victron
Their reputation of durability far exceeds the new players