Off topic, EV vehicle opinions…

[aenyc]

I am not one of those that believes I am saving the environment. I grew up in LA in the fiftties when on smoggy days my eyes stung and my lungs hurt when I excercized so I am thankful for the emission standards that cleaned up the air in California. I have driven over 200,000 miles in my EVs since 2012 and the economic benefits are more than enough to justify the expense for me. I do enjoy the tax benefit but did not always get a tax credit but purchased or leased anyway.

This is not really aimed at you.
The key is education.
For example, EV drivers today are not paying the road tax that is part of gas tax. They are aleady talking about remediating that little hole of EV owners (Which will make their TCO much higher almost immediately).
Then we get into tires (EVs are heavy and use up tires much faster, tires also are major source of particulate, so EVs actually do MORE of real pollution).
Modern ICE cars actually produce very few emissions (This is very noticeable when you go to third world which still uses a lot of older ICE cars)

Then we get into battery production and recycling (or lack there of, cost, environmental impact, etc, etc - and this is barely scratching the surface of EV problems).

As for California - the state has been so badly mismanaged by government, I am not even sure it can be salvaged anymore, almost everything costs more in California.

 

[aenyc]

I routinely ignore various levels of government. This is still a free country with a lot more liberties than many other countries I have visited. I am thankful for that.

Everything is relative.
Our liberties are disappearing at an alarming rate, especially in the last 5 years.
What used to be true as recently as 2019, no longer is.
US (and West) is accelerating its march towards tyrrany, and catching up to the third world in corruption.
But many people are still asleep at the steering wheel.
This is Tsarist Russia circa early 1900, where the liberal, well-off class started noticing things starting to go sideways, but were too "normie", so they ignored the tremors. History knows what happened next.

 

[Ampster]

For example.....

I pay an EV road tax on my registration and my Model X did only get 40,000 miles on a set of tires. My Model 3 got 60,000 so I am not sure tire particles are much of an issue. No oil changes, no brake replacements, and the list goes on not to mention those of us that can charge from solar so the cost per mile is significantly lower than when I last drove an ICE.
I don't expect to change your opinion. I just want future readers of this thread to see another opinion based on real world experience..

 

[HRTKD]

For example, EV drivers today are not paying the road tax that is part of gas tax. They are aleady talking about remediating that little hole of EV owners (Which will make their TCO much higher almost immediately).

You are correct that I do not pay a road tax through the tax on fuel at a gas station. However, my registration fee for my EV is higher due to these two line items:

Electric Vehicle Fee: $54.47
Battery Electric Road Usage Equalization Fee: $8.00

You might think the EV would be exempt from the emissions fees that are on the registration, but I get dinged for those too.

Comparing my EV's extra fees to what my wife would pay in fuel taxes at the pump, she would need to go through 247 gallons a year to pay the same. That would be about 7,000 miles on her car, which would be about right. Since I work from home, I put around 4,000 miles on the EV each year.

 

[Bob B]

Well, an EV Buick Enclave would be a step up from the junk 3.6L with the bicycle chain they used for a timing chain. A rubber v belt might have worked better.

This comment is nothing but marketing, "Buick is transforming, launching the best vehicles the brand has ever had and is the fastest growing mainstream brand in 2023."

This is GM country and I can assure you that any of the GM platforms that used the 3.6L or the 2.4L Ecotec that also has numerous problems has cost GM many current and future customers.

If GM kept the 3800 and put that in the SUV crossovers, they would have gained market share substantially against any other car maker out there. I think corporate intentionally sabotaged the company.

I had a 94 Bonneville with the 3800 engine .... Loved that car.
I'd still be driving it if the wife hadn't kept driving it after a hose popped and drained all the coolant.

I haven't forgiven them for ditching Pontiac.

 

[G00SE]

I have nothing against EVs (or any other stupid idea) as long as none of this stuff is subsidized with taxpayer money or forced upon us with govt mandates that cost taxpayer money.
Let these things stand on their own in the free market.

curious to know if you share that stance for the oil and agriculture industries as well

Edit: I don’t disagree with much of what you say in this thread, I just wonder if sometimes we are being selective in how taxes and subsidies should be applied in our minds

 

[JWLV]

You think you are non-reliant on oil? Man that is as funny as hell.

Also why do you hate the children?

Please tell everyone why you are in a solar forum and you hate EVs.

Also tell everyone why you hate the federal tax credit for installing solar?

 

[aenyc]

I pay an EV road tax on my registration and my Model X did only get 40,000 miles on a set of tires. My Model 3 got 60,000 so I am not sure tire particles are much of an issue. No oil changes, no brake replacements, and the list goes on not to mention those of us that can charge from solar so the cost per mile is significantly lower than when I last drove an ICE.
I don't expect to change your opinion. I just want future readers of this thread to see another opinion based on real world experience..

EVs are a climate solution with a pollution problem: Tire particles

The tiny fragments that tires shed are yet another reason to reduce car use.

grist.org

(This site is actually great as it openly states the end goal of the agenda that EVs are part of - getting rid of private auto)

A more balanced article:

The Unseen Emissions: Tire Dust and the Environmental Mirage of Electric Vehicles

Tire dust, a largely overlooked aspect of vehicular pollution, is found to be a major contributor to ocean microplastics, according to a recent study cited in an article from The Drive. The study f…

wattsupwiththat.com

Without a Gas Tax, How Will EVs Be Charged for Road Use? - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports looks at where the funding for state and federal roads will come from as more Americans switch to electric vehicles.

www.consumerreports.org

(They are going to try to push a per mile tax and EVs will be perfect for that goal - it will start with EVs, then they will tax all private autos)

So no, and no.
(Or more accurately NO, and NOT YET)

 

[aenyc]

Please tell everyone why you are in a solar forum and you hate EVs.

Also tell everyone why you hate the federal tax credit for installing solar?

EVs and Solar is not necesserely mutually exclusive.
Many here have solar for such scenarios as rationing (in the name of cLIEmate change or any other BS they can easily come up with), brownouts and rolling blackouts (Because of govt mismanagement of energy that California especially should be intimately familiar with).

As for EVs - with current tech it is completely unsustainable. As i have posted in other forums we have 3 elephants in the room that must be overcome for EVs to become accessible to the masses.

1. Battery technology - today, it is the most environmentally destructive (pollution). 10 minutes of internet research tells us why. Also heavily reliant on an "unfriendly" foreign state (China). Nearly impossible to recycle with current tech (Research this yourself). Did i mention Thermal Runaway aka Lithium fire that require fire departments from 5 towns to take out (And as much water as a typical household uses in 2 years).

2. Grid Generation - Grids are already near capacity as is (and getting worse with "renewable push" which are intermittent and have a myriad of other problems and proof of this is California).

3. Grid Transmission - if even 20% of cars switch to EVs the grid will break as the lines are not designed to carry all the extra power. Upgrades will take a lot of time and almost unimaginable amount of money.

So EVs are rich man's toys, subsidized by the poor, at its most basic level.

So enjoy your EV but most definitely dont advocate for everyone to have one, as you will be the first one to suffer as they ration your energy. (This is why there is such a push to change everyones meter to a SMART meter which has rationing and remote disconnect built in. Research this if you dont believe me).

 

[aenyc]

curious to know if you share that stance for the oil and agriculture industries as well

Edit: I don’t disagree with much of what you say in this thread, I just wonder if sometimes we are being selective in how taxes and subsidies should be applied in our minds

My take is the same - No govt subsidies to any industry. Let each stand on its own market merit.

I am vocal about EV's because the tech is unsustainable and it is ruining our environment much more so than Oil (Look up battery production).
I love the concept of EV and i even wanted one, until i educated myself on how crappy this current tech really is (and the agenda it is helping advance)

Even if we magically solve elephant number 1 tomorrow (very unlikely the way battery research is going - i dont see going away from Li Chemistry any time soon. I am very familiar with Na tech and many others - they all have shortcomings and are not applicable to EV).

Elephants 2 and 3 are exponentially more difficult to solve.

And then there is this

Righteous Risks Part 3: The Electric Vehicle Halo

From the Risk Monger David Zaruk Just imagine if, in the coming months, the following studies would be published in peer-reviewed journals: That battery technologies used in electric vehicles (EVs)…

wattsupwiththat.com

If you are an EV owner with a righteous moral outrage toward this article, please consider whether your comment is emotion or fact-based before clicking on the send button. I would prefer a rational discussion.

 

[G00SE]

EVs and Solar is not necesserely mutually exclusive.
Many here have solar for such scenarios as rationing (in the name of cLIEmate change or any other BS they can easily come up with), brownouts and rolling blackouts (Because of govt mismanagement of energy that California especially should be intimately familiar with).

As for EVs - with current tech it is completely unsustainable. As i have posted in other forums we have 3 elephants in the room that must be overcome for EVs to become accessible to the masses.

1. Battery technology - today, it is the most environmentally destructive (pollution). 10 minutes of internet research tells us why. Also heavily reliant on an "unfriendly" foreign state (China). Nearly impossible to recycle with current tech (Research this yourself). Did i mention Thermal Runaway aka Lithium fire that require fire departments from 5 towns to take out (And as much water as a typical household uses in 2 years).

2. Grid Generation - Grids are already near capacity as is (and getting worse with "renewable push" which are intermittent and have a myriad of other problems and proof of this is California).

3. Grid Transmission - if even 20% of cars switch to EVs the grid will break as the lines are not designed to carry all the extra power. Upgrades will take a lot of time and almost unimaginable amount of money.

So EVs are rich man's toys, subsidized by the poor, at its most basic level.

So enjoy your EV but most definitely dont advocate for everyone to have one, as you will be the first one to suffer as they ration your energy. (This is why there is such a push to change everyones meter to a SMART meter which has rationing and remote disconnect built in. Research this if you dont believe me).

Isn’t it far easier to shut the power down and then all fuel pumps are worthless?
At least with an EV my offgrid solar can still get me from point A to point B
They don’t need society in EVs to implement more control. Heck a half dozen choke points in the lower 48 would accomplish the same

 

[JWLV]

I always encourage people to find facts and information on whatever it is they are passionate about. But one thing for sure is that Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Tiktok, and the like are not a great source of that information. Sure, there are those who are experts in their field on those platforms. But there are 100 times more people who are not. At the end of the day, the signal to noise ratio is 1:100. If someone is truly seeking facts and information, always consider the source. In other words, don't take a plumber's advice when installing your solar system and don't take a stock broker's advice about climate change.

 

[OffGridForGood]

We are the exception in my area, bought the EV used. Wired up EV charging to allow dump load in summer or switch to utility charge for winter. A kWh of solar (for me) equals $0.71 of 'not gas' transportation mostly due to living in a place where electricity is hydroelectric ie-cheap, and gasoline is expensive.
Off peak 11:00pm to 7:00AM a kWh is 2.8 cents (CAD$) or about 2-cents USD. The operating cost difference for us between a Kona EV and the Mazda Tribute it replaced is significant, making the (used) EV pay back a bit over four years for us - no rebates here on purchase of used.

I noticed the EV auto insurance was a bit more than the Tribute, the tire wear is about the same, the up front cost of the EV is higher, but the ongoing maintenance is far lower (no oil changes, no exhaust work etc,).
I think the part my wife likes the most is Not having to stop at gas stations Ever.

If the 'sugar-beets ever hit the fan', I can still charge an EV and get around, not so for my RAM if gasoline stops getting shipped in.
For anyone interested in self-reliance, Solar and EV's are a viable option for on site power production and local transportation.
We don't do long trips with our EV, even though the charging network is all there and ready to go, the fast chargers cost about x2 the peak utility rates (gotta pay for those chargers) and we use the EV for just home to near-by City and back - about 60-80 miles or so including typical stops for shopping.
When the EV is home it is plugged in. If the solar has excess it goes to the EV, aka the rolling battery ESS -LOL.

For me, getting the EV was a bit more expensive than just building a second ESS like the one I already have, plus this 'rolling battery' gets us from the homested to the near-by City and back for pennies. It saves us a lot of money in gas, gives me a nearly endless dump load location, lets my wife get around without gas stations, and it is quieter.
We considered the F-150 Lightning when it came out, to replace our RAM - but the Lightning was pricy, and I don't like the idea of pouch cells they have. Our RAM is 2500 and is more capable than the F-150, but expensive to operate ie lots of gasoline. It has a couple more years left in it, so I can wait see what comes to market.

 

[fpgt72]

I am not one of those that believes I am saving the environment. I grew up in LA in the fiftties when on smoggy days my eyes stung and my lungs hurt when I excercized so I am thankful for the emission standards that cleaned up the air in California. I have driven over 200,000 miles in my EVs since 2012 and the economic benefits are more than enough to justify the expense for me. I do enjoy the tax benefit but did not always get a tax credit but purchased or leased anyway.
EDIT: As subsequently mentioned, the oil industry and agriculture get big subsidies.

So as long as you don't see where the electricity comes from you are fine.

I doubt anyone is suggesting a return to the 1970's. What people are saying is that the battery car is a dead end, just like it was 100 years ago.

 

[fpgt72]

Everything is relative.
Our liberties are disappearing at an alarming rate, especially in the last 5 years.
What used to be true as recently as 2019, no longer is.
US (and West) is accelerating its march towards tyrrany, and catching up to the third world in corruption.
But many people are still asleep at the steering wheel.
This is Tsarist Russia circa early 1900, where the liberal, well-off class started noticing things starting to go sideways, but were too "normie", so they ignored the tremors. History knows what happened next.

You need to read this book. It sounds like you already have.

 

[fpgt72]

Please tell everyone why you are in a solar forum and you hate EVs.

Also tell everyone why you hate the federal tax credit for installing solar?

I don't hate EV's I think they are a good vehicle for people with very short commutes and live 10 miles from everything they need. It is not the answer to all problems like we are told.

I do HATE that my tax $$ is being used to fund other peoples transportation needs.

Again I don't think my money should be going to that stuff as far as installing solar. Yes I do take advantage of it, it is there so why not it is one of those things if everyone else is getting a slice of my money why not me. It is still wrong in my eyes however.

Make no mistake I think the EV for most people is just not going to work even with. And this does not go into the "new" dangers of these EV's exploding and bursting into flames.

These things are worse then a old Pinto. At least it had to be run into before bursting into flames, these things can go nuts when you are sleeping in your bed and they are sitting in your garage.

As well as the production of all the things for these batteries is not the most friendly.

 

[aenyc]

Isn’t it far easier to shut the power down and then all fuel pumps are worthless?
At least with an EV my offgrid solar can still get me from point A to point B
They don’t need society in EVs to implement more control. Heck a half dozen choke points in the lower 48 would accomplish the same

It is easier, but remember, they cant have a revolution on their hand. You are talking SHTF scenario - while possible, it is unlikely (under SHTF its extremely difficult to maintain control).
Much more likely is electric energy rationing. WIth smart meter this is trivial. This was already tested in with stupid people and smart thermostats (i think in colorado?) where they were locked out from being able to change temperature under pretext of energy conservation or some other BS.
With SMART meters, this is absolutely trivial to do, and rationing is very unlikely to cause complete revolt, but it absolutely will get people conditioned to reduce their energy use (like they did in EU - set your thermostats to 16C in winter because "evil russians").
Ofcourse as always, "they" are completely exempt from any of these (Megayacht law in EU, megamansions on waterfront, private jets, etc, etc).

 

[fpgt72]

It is easier, but remember, they cant have a revolution on their hand. You are talking SHTF scenario - while possible, it is unlikely (under SHTF its extremely difficult to maintain control).
Much more likely is electric energy rationing. WIth smart meter this is trivial. This was already tested in with stupid people and smart thermostats (i think in colorado?) where they were locked out from being able to change temperature under pretext of energy conservation or some other BS.
With SMART meters, this is absolutely trivial to do, and rationing is very unlikely to cause complete revolt, but it absolutely will get people conditioned to reduce their energy use (like they did in EU - set your thermostats to 16C in winter because "evil russians").
Ofcourse as always, "they" are completely exempt from any of these (Megayacht law in EU, megamansions on waterfront, private jets, etc, etc).

It was in CO:

A utility company locked thousands of customers out of their smart thermostats in Colorado

An epic heatwave is suffocating the western US.

www.theverge.com

I read stories of people with blow dryers and space heaters on the t-stat so it would hit the AC.

Total control is what they are all after. It all ties in together.

 

[Hedges]

OMG! The house reached 88F inside!

The utility still has another option - grid collapse because load exceeds generation/transmission capacity. Optionally with failure of distribution equipment, delaying return of power.

Then your fridge and fan won't work either.

 

[fpgt72]

OMG! The house reached 88F inside!

The utility still has another option - grid collapse because load exceeds generation/transmission capacity. Optionally with failure of distribution equipment, delaying return of power.

Then your fridge and fan won't work either.

Solar is an answer to all of that. "They" will not have control and that is a big worry. Control is what it is all about.

"Grid collapse" in the strict terms really is to be avoided. This video is several years old and really goes into that pretty well IMHO.