Sadly they have farmers dump milk to waste it too. Control.
Off topic, EV vehicle opinions…
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svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Retooling for new models/technologies is a normal cost and depends on the size, the real question is how that compares to other technologies.
I saw a reference that said the average annual cost to maintain a car dealership is around $4 million; but that was everything including insurance. Without knowing the particulars $300 to $400k might be a bargain compared to past innovations.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
We see auto dealerships do a 'facelift' every five years it seems - lots of expensive components just to freshen up the look of the buildings and look 'new' again, spending a lot more than a few hundred thousand ...they don't seem to be losing money.
Every 5 years? It is not that way when I worked in the industry years ago, and it does not seem that way currently around here.
Dealers also tend to have a very good idea on just who their current customers are, and what they are going to like. We have one ford dealer here that is basically only trucks and has been for decades.
There is a great deal past the infrastructure, the tools from the parent company are not free, you do buy those. You also shell out the costs for training, and that can take a tech, or three off line for a few weeks. Starting from scratch I knew people that went to training for a month when GM switched from carbs to their FI, and then when their early FI had so many issues, Throttle body and Intek injectors back to training they go, and yet more new tools to buy.
Then everyone in the business is looking at what is going on.
EV Sales Plunge 55% In Germany As Incentives Dry Up | Carscoops
Sales of electric vehicles plummeted in January, hinting at turmoil within the broader German automotive sector
www.carscoops.com
They know people are just not going to be buying them as a replacement on their old car. You might get them into a hybrid, but many balk at that. They want tried and true. A new car is a HUGE investment for many people, even on lease you are paying a good amount every month. Then they come back and they don't sell.
The people that want an EV for the most part already have one.
If left to its own devices the EV market would have crashed on its own years ago.
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
As Sandy Monroe says, dealers also know they won't make as much money selling them because they are more reliable. A much more reasonable explanation as to why dealers don't like them. The graphic on the right shows 38% of the population is between Very and Somewhat open to purchasing an electric vehicle. That's one hell of a market! That said, given lack of charging options for apartment dwellers, I can see why a lot of people aren't ready to buy them. Are EV sales really going down? Let's look at new car registrations rather than rely on made up facts from questionable sources: 
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svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Ran across this... be prepared to pay more in taxes if buying an EV:
EV Drivers Pay More In Taxes And Fees Than ICE
Money Mail can today reveal a timebomb looming in the second-hand market for electric vehicles (EVs).
Our investigation found that many EVs could become almost impossible to resell because of their limited battery life.
Experts said that the average EV battery guarantee lasts just eight years. After this time, the battery may lose power more quickly and so reduce mileage between charges.
Many EVs will lose up to 12 per cent of their charge capacity by six years. Some may lose even more.
Yet the cost of replacing an EV battery is astonishingly high, our research found.
A five-year-old Renault Zoe costs £9,100 but a new battery will set you back £24,124
In some cases, the cost of a replacement battery is as much as £40,000. For certain EVs, the cost of replacing the battery could be ten times the value of the vehicle itself on the second-hand market.
That means used EVs have a limited lifespan — which makes them a bigger and bigger risk as the years go by.
Research into EV batteries is yet to be conclusive and the second-hand EV market is new, given the first popular EVs were rolled off the production line in 2009.
Last night, one motoring expert said customers should be wary of buying a used electric car beyond its warranty (typically eight years), as after that timespan there is no easy way of measuring how much the battery will degrade before it needs replacing.
This may mean you end up needing to pay for an expensive new battery.
Motor expert Shahzad Sheikh, who runs the YouTube channel Brown Car Guy, said: ‘With a decaying battery, the range will be poor and you may find it becomes increasingly hard to resell the vehicle after eight years.
Buyers will know that they’ll only get a small amount of life out of the car so will pay only a small sum, if anything at all.’
This problem is exacerbated by the fact all new cars coming onto the market by 2035 will be electric and motorists will have to get used to paying around £10,000 more than it’s petrol equivalent, for a vehicle which is not built to last as long.
Take a new petrol-driven Renault Clio — it costs around £20,000, while its all-electric opposite, the Renault Zoe, costs closer to £30,000.
While you can drive a traditional petrol or diesel car for around 200,000 miles over 14 years before the engine needs fixing or replacing, by comparison a new EV is typically guaranteed under a warranty for 100,000 miles over eight years.
Should your petrol engine need replacing you can expect to pay around £5,000, but replace the battery on your EV outside warranty and you’re looking at an eye-watering £13,000 to £40,000, depending on the make of your car, if you fit a manufacturer’s new unit.
And there are external factors at play with battery degradation — including use of fast chargers and even a colder climate.
The high cost of EV batteries is a result of it being difficult to mine metals such as nickel, cobalt, lithium and manganese that are used in the lithium-ion batteries.
They are also in demand for the production of other electronics, including mobile phones and laptops.
In the most extreme cases, such as with a 12-year-old Nissan Leaf that cost £2,000 to buy, you can pay as much as £24,000 for a brand-new replacement 24kWh battery.
However, most owners would upgrade to a newer 40kWh Nissan battery costing £12,780 before garage installation fees of around £2,000. This later battery has a bigger capacity but can still be fitted into older models.
These high costs to maintain an electric car do not bode well for a fledgling second-hand market believes Shahzad Sheikh, who points out: ‘Early adopters have already bought electric cars while the next wave of buyers are looking for value for money — and struggling to find it.
‘The second-hand market might seem a natural place to look for an EV but unfortunately it is fraught with danger as the batteries are worth more than the car. If the battery stops working, the vehicle becomes almost worthless.’
Vehicle trading website AA Cars agrees and says that nearly half of all potential second-hand EV buyers are put off because of concerns about battery life.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...-impossible-sell-batteries-wont-affected.html
The situation is even worse than the Mail thinks.
This is not just a problem for eight year old cars, because it will cascade back up the supply chain.
For instance, if you buy a 5 year old petrol car now, you can reasonably assume you will still get a couple of thousand back when you trade it in in three years time. Buy a 5 year old EV, and and you probably won’t get a penny back. That in turn therefore devalues that 5-year old EV, as buyers cannot afford to buy one otherwise. And so on up the chain.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Tar and feathers for the people with the idea comes to mind.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
On the contrary. Local mail trucks should all be electric already. If I have to listen to that grinding starter as the gal drives around cutting off the motor at each stop traveling between mailboxes to save fuel. . . I asked she said she drives about 30-40 miles/day. This is an absolutely perfect application for an electric vehicle, small 100-120mi range fleet vehicle, 20-30KWH packs. Long term savings would be huge. Trivial to put in overnight A/C charging at the depot, with low TOU power charges. Around here at least I would guess the payback would be 5 years or less with the drastically lower maintenance and fuel costs.
This is the problem with the whole discussion. This is not an all-or-nothing equation. EV's make sense where they make sense. For an OTR trucking application maybe not so much. If you are towing a 5th wheel, not so much. The tech is extremely viable for a number of applications. I would expect to see daytime delivery vehicles to be dominated by electrics within the next 10-15 years as fleets age out.
10,000% this.
There's NO one vehicle or energy source that is a silver bullet solution to all transportation needs. Use the best tool for the job.
I do agree with those who think that the government should have no part of this and taxpayer $$$ should have no part of this. That's my opinion for 95% of everything the government does right now, though. Maybe 98%.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
So let me educate you:
RE: Tires. Not that significant. Your going to maybe buy an extra set of tires every 100K miles. BFD. I don't run the LRR's anymore I don't really notice a range difference. I just put a set of grippy performance 40Kmi's on my Kona, cost me < $400. I put plenty of similar tires on the ICE cars, and I'm sure no one here has ever torn up the sidewall on a tire and had to unexpectedly purchase two new tires after running over some trash, because ICE vehicles magically jump over the box of nails that jumped off the construction truck you are following, with your brand new tires. Meh.
RE: Road taxes. This is going to have to give a little, likely with registration fees. The powers that be are still trying to figure this one out. Fuel taxes average about 0.50-0.60/gal across the nation: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-gas-tax-rates-2023/. The problem has been progressively getting worse for years without EV's. We keep pushing up mpg numbers, which in turn lowers the total tax revenue because people don't buy as much fuel. So how much money are we actually talking about?
A typical POV that averages 40MPG and travels 15000 miles/year (15000/40) * 0.60 = $225/year. Not really that much money in the grand scheme eh? So that "little" hole is actually not going to change TCO significantly as it closes over the next few years, though multiplied by the sheer number of vehicles it's going to make a big dent in the road budgets for municipalities.
RE: Batteries. We frankly do not have enough dead batteries to actually figure out what is going to be needed, and how to effectively recycle the materials. This will not happen tomorrow, but will happen over time.
But you see they must have the .gov forcing it down your neck. If not then you would never do it. I know it, you know it and they know it.
2023 higher than 2022? Not much of an EV slowdown. Up until now most EVs have been expensive luxury models. Now that less expensive models are available I can see more being sold.
As Sandy Monroe says, dealers also know they won't make as much money selling
them because they are more reliable. A much more reasonable explanation as
to why dealers don't like them.
The graphic on the right shows 38% of the population is between Very and
Somewhat open to purchasing an electric vehicle. That's one hell of a market!
That said, given lack of charging options for apartment dwellers, I can see why
a lot of people aren't ready to buy them.
Are EV sales really going down? Let's look at new car registrations rather than
rely on made up facts from questionable sources:
More reliable....you mean when they are not bursting into flames in parking lots and garages.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Adored mine, Candyapple red metallic. I absolutely miss that car more than anything I have ever owned. 3800 was a beast, The car was gorgeous, and had a big cabin, mine had its share of baby puke and other child originated fluids that were mostly removed. Not too bad on gas either! <sigh>.
The newer models aren't using the older battery chemistry that was prone to burning. Plus, it's not like there aren't Car-b-ques for ICE vehicles. They just don't get the press that EV fires do.
Nah, lots of people would have EVs without any government intervention. I'm with you on the government side, but on the people liking EVs thing you're just plain wrong.
The only problem is as always battery.
These trucks get a lot of mileage on them, batteries will be exhausted very quickly.
Do you want me to link again on how much DIESEL and WATER are spent on mining for a SINGLE EV BATTERY (Hint: Hundreds of Tons). Then we get to the economics of battery replacement (All on the taxpayer money - these batteries are NOT cheap (50-70K for a battery required for a little postal truck).
And then there are the "thermal runaways" (aka Lithium Fire). I would definitely NOT want one of those near my house for a multitude of reasons (let alone amount of chemical pollution released when one of those happens).
So EVs are again a pipe dream for the uneducated.
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The problem is that the rich are the only ones who can actually afford them, even with subsidy
