diy solar

diy solar

Someone told me to buy these, now what?? Need help with lug connectors

BUT! I am only here to learn. I didn't come here for anything else besides that. It just occurred to me because (I am receiving emails from someone who is trying to set up my future training) . Maybe I could get some kind of formal training? and learn to help with my current life situation and goals?

Since you are in LA and I'm in Indiana, have you tried finding a part time contractor that will teach you in trade for labor?

Have you considered finding one of the electricians text books on Amazon or eBay?

The 'Basics' and 'How To' books from the big box stores will give you a start and some tips,
Getting a switch or wall outlet and some wire scraps will give you a start on learning stripping, wire gauge sizes, how to bend a hook & get it on a screw terminal in the right direction (clockwise)...

A flashlight battery and light bulb will teach you to build basic circuits,
Practice soldering if you want to do smaller work, about everything DC there will be soldering involved.

You don't need someone pawing you (if that's what you suspect) to do these basic things, and you get to learn at your own speed.
You have a resource here to ask questions if your doings are right or not.

I know something like an oversized lug socket, and two wires stuffed into it (a 'Y' or tap splice connection) is hard to grasp now, but it removes two terminal ends in the harness.
Like that terminal strip in your picture, no sense in cutting those wires and adding extra terminals just to bolt them back together...

Can you follow a diagram drawing?
Something like this?

PVBattery01.gif

If you understand the difference between series & parallel you are already ahead of 99% of the population!
 
I'm of the school, "Build So It Doesn't Fail".
Buy/Build Once, Cry About The Price/Work Once.

And just for the record, I didn't say anything about dams,
My interest was completely in the Tesla/Westinghouse & Edison generators/motors.

The New York subway system operates on 600 Volts DC.
That 600 VDC is produced by a self rectifying (no AC to DC rectifiers) 'Dynamo' type generator that has been in constant use since Nicola Tesla designed it and Thomas Edison built it, with only brush & bearing maintiance in all this time.
It so critical to transportation in New York city the location is kept secret and Homeland Security guards it.

While we know EXACTLY where the generators are in Hoover dam, those Nicola Tesla designed and Westinghouse built generators were only recently rebuilt using *Slightly* more pure copper/silver than was available when they were built, and modern insulating materials for a *Slight* increase in production for the same amount of water used.
That will be millions of extra kWH over time, and water is a dwindling resource...
But the frame, field & armature design didn't change since no one has come up with anything more efficient in the past 100 years!
OK, understood. Tesla was a genius whom I believe may have been assassinated. I think his work was stolen and used to benfit some greedy individuals. That's so cool about your wife! You are fortunate to have each other. ;-)
 
I go out on the water for a few hours testing PWM speed controls and come back to @JeepHammer re-writing the internet :). Good stuff!

I can't match the technical details JH provided with regards to solder vs crimp, but I'll add a little anecdote...

I always have and probably always will prefer solder. It was never even a fair comparison in my mind until the mid 90's when I was working for General Motors. They put me through college and trained me in areas where they needed someone certified in order to be allowed to sell their new xyz car. The new C5 Vette needed special training in ABS and fly-by-wire among other things.

These systems had such tight electrical tolerances that there was a lot of special training on just the electrical repair aspect of things. This was the first time in my life I was forced to use crimps instead of solder. Any repair to these systems, by law (or so they claimed), had to be done in a 100% repeatable manner. One tech's repair must be the exact same as another tech's. A repaired system must test the same as a new system...etc

Their reasoning for using crimps was simple: nobody solders the same. And most people don't know how to solder in the first place. The repairs had to be made with their $1k crimpers with their $10 heat shrink with glue connectors. No exceptions.

I asked my trainer "do you really think this crimp is better than a proper solder joint?" His answer, which I believe is still the correct answer to this whole debate today was "NO, but 95% of people don't know a proper solder joint from their ass, but a monkey can make a perfect crimp every time with the right tools."

That pretty much sums it up, but I'll have to add that it's not just the right tools, but the right connectors that match the tool. I have a nice pair of crimpers, but if I try and use cheap connectors I sometimes get a loose crimp and have to use one size smaller crimp die...< that results in a tight crimp, but not a 100% repeatable proper crimp.
 
Since you are in LA and I'm in Indiana, have you tried finding a part time contractor that will teach you in trade for labor?

Have you considered finding one of the electricians text books on Amazon or eBay?

The 'Basics' and 'How To' books from the big box stores will give you a start and some tips,
Getting a switch or wall outlet and some wire scraps will give you a start on learning stripping, wire gauge sizes, how to bend a hook & get it on a screw terminal in the right direction (clockwise)...

A flashlight battery and light bulb will teach you to build basic circuits,
Practice soldering if you want to do smaller work, about everything DC there will be soldering involved.

You don't need someone pawing you (if that's what you suspect) to do these basic things, and you get to learn at your own speed.
You have a resource here to ask questions if your doings are right or not.

I know something like an oversized lug socket, and two wires stuffed into it (a 'Y' or tap splice connection) is hard to grasp now, but it removes two terminal ends in the harness.
Like that terminal strip in your picture, no sense in cutting those wires and adding extra terminals just to bolt them back together...

Can you follow a diagram drawing?
Something like this?

View attachment 2254

If you understand the difference between series & parallel you are already ahead of 99% of the population!
Yes, I can understand parallel and series. My introduction to this was Christmas lights when I was a child. We could buy either one back in the day...P.S. No, I have not contacted anyone outside of here. I want to leave this state ASAP! P.P.S. I don't do well with diagrams. I learn better from watching it done in real-life.
 
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I go out on the water for a few hours testing PWM speed controls and come back to @JeepHammer re-writing the internet :). Good stuff!

I can't match the technical details JH provided with regards to solder vs crimp, but I'll add a little anecdote...

I always have and probably always will prefer solder. It was never even a fair comparison in my mind until the mid 90's when I was working for General Motors. They put me through college and trained me in areas where they needed someone certified in order to be allowed to sell their new xyz car. The new C5 Vette needed special training in ABS and fly-by-wire among other things.

These systems had such tight electrical tolerances that there was a lot of special training on just the electrical repair aspect of things. This was the first time in my life I was forced to use crimps instead of solder. Any repair to these systems, by law (or so they claimed), had to be done in a 100% repeatable manner. One tech's repair must be the exact same as another tech's. A repaired system must test the same as a new system...etc

Their reasoning for using crimps was simple: nobody solders the same. And most people don't know how to solder in the first place. The repairs had to be made with their $1k crimpers with their $10 heat shrink with glue connectors. No exceptions.

I asked my trainer "do you really think this crimp is better than a proper solder joint?" His answer, which I believe is still the correct answer to this whole debate today was "NO, but 95% of people don't know a proper solder joint from their ass, but a monkey can make a perfect crimp every time with the right tools."

That pretty much sums it up, but I'll have to add that it's not just the right tools, but the right connectors that match the tool. I have a nice pair of crimpers, but if I try and use cheap connectors I sometimes get a loose crimp and have to use one size smaller crimp die...< that results in a tight crimp, but not a 100% repeatable proper crimp.
See...now that is my point. I want to do my system "right", but what does that exactly mean to a beginner who also is a perfectionist?
 
I go out on the water for a few hours testing PWM speed controls and come back to @JeepHammer re-writing the internet :). Good stuff!

I can't match the technical details JH provided with regards to solder vs crimp, but I'll add a little anecdote...

I always have and probably always will prefer solder. It was never even a fair comparison in my mind until the mid 90's when I was working for General Motors. They put me through college and trained me in areas where they needed someone certified in order to be allowed to sell their new xyz car. The new C5 Vette needed special training in ABS and fly-by-wire among other things.

These systems had such tight electrical tolerances that there was a lot of special training on just the electrical repair aspect of things. This was the first time in my life I was forced to use crimps instead of solder. Any repair to these systems, by law (or so they claimed), had to be done in a 100% repeatable manner. One tech's repair must be the exact same as another tech's. A repaired system must test the same as a new system...etc

Their reasoning for using crimps was simple: nobody solders the same. And most people don't know how to solder in the first place. The repairs had to be made with their $1k crimpers with their $10 heat shrink with glue connectors. No exceptions.

I asked my trainer "do you really think this crimp is better than a proper solder joint?" His answer, which I believe is still the correct answer to this whole debate today was "NO, but 95% of people don't know a proper solder joint from their ass, but a monkey can make a perfect crimp every time with the right tools."

That pretty much sums it up, but I'll have to add that it's not just the right tools, but the right connectors that match the tool. I have a nice pair of crimpers, but if I try and use cheap connectors I sometimes get a loose crimp and have to use one size smaller crimp die...< that results in a tight crimp, but not a 100% repeatable proper crimp.

Lawyers...

Although the crimp tool was $1,000 a repeatable computer controlled soldering machine would be $10 million and have to be retooled for every harness change.

*IF* anything fails, the lawyers fall from the skies like hail stones the size of basketballs.
There is no such thing as a 'Simple Recall'.

I have my share of 'Factory Crimp' tools having had civilian & military contracts...
It's amazing how many 'Simple' crimps by simple hand tools have lasted decades without all the specialized equipment... Let's hear it for DIY guys! :)
 
i just heard this" the more you sweat now, the less you will bleed later"...
 
My fields of study are electro-magnetic and metalurgy, so I'm shaky on electro-chemical...

Metallurgically, solder in SOME applications where high or constant vibration is not recommended.
Aircraft, submarines, anything that has constant High Frequency vibration will Work Harden wires right being the solder.
Wiring is bundled, stationary, then there is free wire that will vibrate/swing, solder keeps the wire strands from deforming and radius bending, and they can break off just behind the terminal.

This is bending the strands, work hardening the conductor,
In metalurgy we call it stress, fracturing the crystalline grains.
As crystals fracture, 'Slivers' break off, with wedge shaped sharp edges,
Those wedges are very efficient 'Jacks' and pry the grains apart until they fail.

This is brass, but it's 70% or more copper,and the image is called a Micrograph.
The diamond shape punch mark is a hardness (cross sectional density) punch, and the mark is measured to determine how much the material deflects when pressure is applied (hardness, resistance against the force calibrated punch).

This sample has been mounted, polished down to 2 microns, acid etched & stained so you can see the crystals.
Polarized light filters are used to being details out in the image.

View attachment 2236

There is a reason I say to point the terminal down about 45 degrees, and STOP when the solder starts climbing the wire bundle.
Tinning up to the insulation line is recommended, but tinning INSIDE the insulation is a bad idea.
Gravity & Air pressure inside the insulation will 'Cap' the solder, the solder will be more or less a straight line, and hard/fixed conductor strands that can't move are a bad idea, it creates a Stress Line where all strands are forced to bend at the same spots over & over, work hardening the strands.

The benefits of properly soldering bare copper outweigh the negatives, particularly in DC wiring.
DC doesn't have the same rules of conduction AC has, DC is one way electron flow...
Resistance ANYWHERE accumulates & compounds.
(Skin Effect is why corroded aluminum AC power lines waste as much as 80% of production in transmission, and voltage is pushed instead of amperage)

Another benefit is environmental protection of the expensive copper and the time saved NOT having your system down while you tracked and replaced corroded wires and ruined terminals, particularly terminal to wire sockets you CAN'T see on visual inspection.
The ONLY way to track a corroded socket/cable corroded under the insulation is a Load Test.
1-1/2 volt resistance multimeter will not detect corroded conductors if there is even one strand still intact.
When a 2/0 cable won't conduct 35 amps, but shows no resistance since *Some* strands are intact, a load test is the only way to find it...
Solder simply seals up the exposed wires so acid/corrosive moisture can't enter.

View attachment 2238

There is no 'Skin Effect' with DC, only solid, internal contact conducts DC.
Solder increases that contact mass/area, particularly if it contains silver.
AC lines are melted/welded at terminus into a solid mass, the surface area of strands is what is important, while DC amp load is carried by mass, one solid conductor does best, but if you want to bend it, tightly packed fine strands puts more mass in the same size space and allows it to bend.
(One reason I recommend fine strand welding cable, it carries more amperage than the heavier strand 'Battery' cable in the same AWG size)

I go on & on about contact surface area, the 'Thickness' (conductor capacity) of heavy 'Neck' terminals instead of thin/hollow tubing terminals,
But when I started a 120 Watt panel was HUGE, Expensive and hard to find, every watt counted.
I was making due with leaky lead acid batteries that were short lived and expensive.
Having my cables heat up sucking Watts in do so taught me some hard & expensive lessons.

Since stationary solar batteries/DC connections aren't subjected to high frequancy vibration, and they will never conduct AC, there aren't any down sides.
In a vehicle, that bounces down the highway a few minutes/hours a day, consider battery cables are often cast/molded directly into lead terminals, the same as solder and take decades to fail, the lead/acid battery usually eating up terminals before conductor fails.

I would point out that oxy-torch actual silver is used for solder in the big welders & generators, train drive motors, etc.
Constant vibration 24/7/365 since 1900 (120+ YEARS!) In subway system generators in big cities.
The original Edison, Tesla & Westinghouse generators are still in use...
The original Tesla/Westinghouse generators at Hoover Dam just got their first rebuild around 2000, in continuous service all that time on silver soldered (pure silver) connections.

It's all entirely what you want to believe and how you want to do things.

In a camper/RV/trailer that can have moisture condensation I personally would solder and glue/heat shrink since condensed water will run down the cable directly into terminals.
If you check around the forum, you will find complaints about propane heat producing a LOT of moisture, and virtually all campers/RVs are propane heated.
Cooking produces a lot of moisture that has to condense somewhere...
A little solder and a little heat shrink goes a LONG way towards zero harness fails, I HATE chasing harness fails :( .

Then we have to consider the electro-chemical end of things.
While metals will transfer and plate the opposite terminal, or even bond solidly with the other terminal in an IDEAL environment,
But a common oxygen environment is FAR from 'Ideal'!

Breathing oxygen (O2) and Ozone (O3) are bad enough in electrical connections, worse in DC connections,
Moisture (H2O) with a current running through it splits, the Hydrogen is separated from Oxygen (O) which immediately attacks the conductor material in the connection.

Anything trying to transfer from one terminal to another (ions, electrons) taking material with them instantly corrodes in the Oxygen (O) environment.
Something as simple as grease seals out moisture/oxygen and the connection sides live MUCH longer.
The grease is squeezed out anywhere the metals meet, but remains in what would normally be air spaces that would allow moisture into the connection.

This all assumes there isn't anything else in the air/moisture getting into the connection,
Sulfur (sulfuric acid), salts, all kinds of other stuff rides the moisture into that connection.
We all know what 'Salt Air' or salt on roadways does to metals, particularly where metals meet and create a weak (DC) battery called a 'Galvanic' reaction, the sheet metal simply corrodes away on car bodies at seams...

Throw a million times that DC current through that contact area, DC terminal to DC terminal, and the response is a million times greater.
Solder removes the air gap and increases the contact area PERMANENTLY.
Even a coat of grease in the air spaces reduces that potential for 'Air' and moisture to enter and the corrosion process is stopped or slowed down by about a million times.
There is a reason electrical insulation are non-oxygen permeable...

The. Consider thermal expansion...
Normal heat/cool cycles, hot day & cool, most nights.
Or duty cycle, heavy loading heat and light load cool down.

Everytime the cable heats, the air expands, when it cools it draws in moist air and the moisture condenses on the conductors.
It's the same principal when gas tanks & oil pans condense moisture out of the air.
Blind socket terminal ends keep moisture/corrosives from entering the cable/terminal socket and cable insulation.
Grease, solder & glue/heat shrink do the same job even though some people argue against it, it's just common sense.

It's application, since our solar batteries are DC, and since they don't vibrate constantly,
And since this isn't very fine wire that's unsecured and swings around with that vibration.
These cables are heavy, and like battery cables in vehicles, they aren't subjected to high frequancy vibration, but have bare copper (not tinned wire) exposed constantly to oxygen & moisture rich environment.

In the solar/RE, bare copper, DC current APPLICATION, I find soldering has few drawback and several benefits.

Make up your own mind, it's *Your* system, do what you want to.
It's your decision, I'm just passing along what I've learned through education & experience, use it if you can or want to...
I am way late to the party here, but love the information. Can I ask for your thoughts on using flattened copper pipe for short connections? The surface contact is maximized (holes are drilled to fit precisely) but I don't know anything about how oxidation or other issues might affect these over time. Would it be useful to place solder wire in the copper pipe and then heat it after flattening? Would stacking 2 of these add anything? I'm planning to use this to connect two lithium batteries in parallel, connect a shunt to the negative, and connect an inline circuit breaker to the positive. None of these are over 3" long. I'm grateful for any thoughts.
 
I got my sack smacked by a code inspector in town for tinning wires to keep them bundled.
That moron actually believed soft electrical solder was 'Hard' and wouldn't conform to the lug/screw, but a solid terminal reducer end was perfectly fine, even though it's work hardened brass/bronze and 100 times harder than soft copper with tinning!

The issue is cold flow deformation, not how hard the solder is. You are NEVER supposed to tin stranded wires before putting them under a screw terminal. If you do this you are almost guaranteeing there will be a loose connection down the road. And loose connections in high current wiring cause fires.

https://cdn.thomasnet.com/ccp/00142951/263810.pdf

You can use tinned wires with a spring loaded connection, but I don't like them. I find solder dipping wires (tinning) to be generally a bad idea no matter what the application. It trades short term installation ease for long term reliability problems. When you solder a wire you create a stress riser at the point that the solder ends. If the wire is flexing or subjected to vibration, then the wire is going to break at the point where the solder ends. That is why soldered wire connections are such a pain to do in aerospace applications. Give me a decent, gas tight mechanical connection over a soldered one any time. If using finely stranded wires that are hard to manage, then use crimp ferrules.
 
Why would you solder a battery terminal and then connect it over a plastic battery case considering the melting point of solder.
 
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