littleharbor2
Solar Addict
I was sent this article from a friend. Trying to figure out whether to write it off as BS or if any of it makes sense. Anybody elses thoughts?
Thoughts on this article?
- Thread starter littleharbor2
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timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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I'm more concerned about the coming alien invasion.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
There is a "heat island" effect that is well documented in urban environments due to the thermal mass of buildings, concrete and asphalt. Its a localized phenomenon and taken as a percentage of the whole is only about 15% of the land mass which is only 30% of the total surface area, the remainder being water. Just in case math is not your strong suit that's only about 4.5% of the total surface area.
Sorry but there is no way a reasonable person could make the argument this is going to cause weather disturbances. Like wise with CO2. its only 400PPM which is 0.04% of the atmospheric gas composition.
Sorry but there is no way a reasonable person could make the argument this is going to cause weather disturbances. Like wise with CO2. its only 400PPM which is 0.04% of the atmospheric gas composition.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
You must be referring to operation "Blue Beam".
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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If it involves little green men, then yes. lol
Nonsense. Let me try to debunk some of those points.
The majority of the energy from the sun is in the visible spectrum and solar panels are tuned to this. Here is a graphic:
As you can see, there is very little energy in the UV (and IR) range and solar cells are tuned for this. There is a whole bunch of physics about this (band gaps, tying incoming photon energies to specific energy gaps in the material etc. which is also where Perovskites come in, but I'm not going there in this post). Suffice to say that claiming that solar cells only work in the IR is rubbish.
Current solar panels are around 20% efficient. So? Car engines aren't much better. Efficiency doesn't really matter if cost/Watt makes it efficient to use them to generate energy.
The heat production thing was discussed in another post, so I won't repeat. The impact is negligible. However that other person also writes:
which ignores the effects of a greenhouse gas in those concentrations, by somehow concluding that it's only a small amount so it couldn't possibly have an impact. Chlorine Pentafluoride is dangerous (IDHL value) at 1.7 ppm - barely anything, so can't possibly have an impact, right?
During the Cretaceous Hot Greenhouse roughly 92 million years ago we had CO2 concentrations of over 1000ppm. There is a reason why industrial greenhouses use carbon dioxide supplementation - which is great for plants, but not so much for humans.
extension.okstate.edu
Finally: define 'green energy'. In my opinion, it, or renewable energy is energy derived from sources that are replenished at a higher rate than they are consumed, and where the total emissions of the plant (including building and decommissioning) is lower than the equivalent other methods of generation using fossil fuels. I also add nuclear to the list of green energy.
The majority of the energy from the sun is in the visible spectrum and solar panels are tuned to this. Here is a graphic:
As you can see, there is very little energy in the UV (and IR) range and solar cells are tuned for this. There is a whole bunch of physics about this (band gaps, tying incoming photon energies to specific energy gaps in the material etc. which is also where Perovskites come in, but I'm not going there in this post). Suffice to say that claiming that solar cells only work in the IR is rubbish.
Current solar panels are around 20% efficient. So? Car engines aren't much better. Efficiency doesn't really matter if cost/Watt makes it efficient to use them to generate energy.
The heat production thing was discussed in another post, so I won't repeat. The impact is negligible. However that other person also writes:
which ignores the effects of a greenhouse gas in those concentrations, by somehow concluding that it's only a small amount so it couldn't possibly have an impact. Chlorine Pentafluoride is dangerous (IDHL value) at 1.7 ppm - barely anything, so can't possibly have an impact, right?
During the Cretaceous Hot Greenhouse roughly 92 million years ago we had CO2 concentrations of over 1000ppm. There is a reason why industrial greenhouses use carbon dioxide supplementation - which is great for plants, but not so much for humans.
Greenhouse Carbon Dioxide Supplementation - Oklahoma State University
By Megha Poudel and Bruce Dunn. Learn about carbon dioxide, its concentration in relation to plants, supplementation, the effect of supplemental CO2 on different growing factors, sources of carbon dioxide and control and distribution of CO2.
extension.okstate.edu
Finally: define 'green energy'. In my opinion, it, or renewable energy is energy derived from sources that are replenished at a higher rate than they are consumed, and where the total emissions of the plant (including building and decommissioning) is lower than the equivalent other methods of generation using fossil fuels. I also add nuclear to the list of green energy.
Doggydogworld
Solar Enthusiast
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The writer doesn't grasp basic concepts and makes numerous mistakes. That said, large scale solar panel deployment can affect local weather. The exact amount is debated since it's impossible to set up a good A/B experiment. A highly oversimplified simulation found small amounts of warming, but much less than that caused by fossil fuels. Frankly, such simulations are not much better than guessing.
littleharbor2
Solar Addict
I mean, this guy has me visualizing huge thunderstorms spawning off of solar farms. As I mentioned to my friend, Solar panels cover maybe 4 quadrillionths (totally made up number) of the earths surface. How is that miniscule amount going to affect the weather at all? As to thermal mass as previously mentioned, again, not happening. Hell, the ground they are shading is possibly going to be emitting LESS heat than if they weren't there.
If it eases your concern any, do like I do, carry around some KY Jelly with you.
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littleharbor2
Solar Addict
They like the KY with the sparkles in it.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
If you look at the 18 sq ft of the Solar Panel, the conclusion may be correct. However, it ignores:
1) What is below the panels; and
2) Offsetting effects of not having to produce the energy another way.
#2 is obvious. Regarding #1:
Covering asphalt roofs is a no-brainer. Black shingles vs black panels - tie.
There is a proposal to build solar panels over canals to reduce evaporation.
Black panels better in winter to gather some heat vs reflecting light off snow (loose 100% of the energy).
BTW: One main reason green grass, trees, etc. are cooler is that they are evaporating water (converting light to energy is a wash between panels and grass). The increased water vapor traps more energy.
1) What is below the panels; and
2) Offsetting effects of not having to produce the energy another way.
#2 is obvious. Regarding #1:
Covering asphalt roofs is a no-brainer. Black shingles vs black panels - tie.
There is a proposal to build solar panels over canals to reduce evaporation.
Black panels better in winter to gather some heat vs reflecting light off snow (loose 100% of the energy).
BTW: One main reason green grass, trees, etc. are cooler is that they are evaporating water (converting light to energy is a wash between panels and grass). The increased water vapor traps more energy.
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
Stop it you lot, it's from a Farsebook expert so it must be true.
How the hell are future generations going to survive ???
How the hell are future generations going to survive ???
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
Yes, indeed water vapor is a green house gas.
Tulex
Solar Wizard
The problem with all of this is that it's not always about being green. Sometimes people use "green" products for their own selfish reasons, and that's as it should be.
Also, the article ignores the other non green energy that solar replaces. Is solar better or worse for the environment than those?
Also, the article ignores the other non green energy that solar replaces. Is solar better or worse for the environment than those?
littleharbor2
Solar Addict
We're all doomed!
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
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littleharbor2
Solar Addict
Ahhh, The Butterfly Effect.
Good movie too.
Mirlen
New Member
What color car do they drive? Do they paint their local roads white?
If that article was true, wouldn't there be thunderstorms and tornadoes during every morning and afternoon rush hour traffic? Does anybody have a storm that follows them around wherever they drive. See many other cars with storms over them? Subdivisions with all black roof houses, storms all the time? Clear weather above adjacent non-black roof subdivisions?
