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Are SOK batteries EMP proof?

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ed6269

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Sep 22, 2019
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Hello everyone
I have always wondered how a battery would fair in a EMP event and how to protect it .
Most batteries have a plastic case and if you have a BMS in the battery I figured it would get toasted during a large EMP event, that being said I understand that if you take items that you need to protect and place them in a simple metal container such as a metal garbage can and seal the lid with foil tape that would save the electronic components from the event.
Since the SOK comes in a metal case and you could seal the top with foil tape easily I started wondering if it would provide at least some protection from an EMP.
What do you think? I know that the holes in the case for the battery terminals might be an issue for the EMP to pass threw depending on how they are sealed , and I am no expert on EMPs so maybe you have more insight or knowledge than myself so what do you think?
IF the case for the SOK would protect from a EMP wouldn't that just make a great selling point for SOK and make it one of the best batteries out there (Which it all ready is)
Thanks for looking
Ed
 
Many years ago I was involved with the design of (lead acid) batteries for a missile silo. As I recall , our EMP parameter was "Could it resist an EMP pulse equal and opposite to the power of the battery?" We did not deal with a BMS but I am sure a civilian version of one would have to be scraped off the ceiling if it saw a pulse like that. My advice? Stay away from nuclear explosions.
 
JRUD said:
Many years ago I was involved with the design of (lead acid) batteries for a missile silo. As I recall , our EMP parameter was "Could it resist an EMP pulse equal and opposite to the power of the battery?" We did not deal with a BMS but I am sure a civilian version of one would have to be scraped off the ceiling if it saw a pulse like that. My advice? Stay away from nuclear explosions.
Click to expand...
Ya I agree, but I am not just talking about a nuclear EMP but thinking more along the lines of a solar event large or small .
 
When you connect the bb battery to rest of the wiring (huge antennas) it is really not any better than any of the plastic cases
 
I've done some research on EMP's and their effects. I used to live right next to DC, so it was a thought that crossed my mind occasionally, especially considering that I lived in an area that was on the top of the "list" for many foreign countries.

I'm not an expert, but I was surprised about the ways an EMP or solar event would work, and they aren't as devastating as I expected.

My numbers aren't exact, but you'll get the idea. If the largest class of EMP went off, it would fry most unprotected electronics that are plugged into walls. Desktop computers, servers, LED bulbs, would most likely be toast.

However, things that aren't plugged in probably will be okay. Replacement bulbs, cell phones, most radios, flashlights, etc would all be fine unless you are literally right under the EMP detonation. I attached a department of energy PDF file, they have simulation maps to show what kind of damage would happen at what range.


 
MattiFin said:
When you connect the bb battery to rest of the wiring (huge antennas) it is really not any better than any of the plastic cases
Click to expand...
Sorry spell check got me I didn't mean best battery I had typed what is a bb battery.
 
MattiFin said:
When you connect the bb battery to rest of the wiring (huge antennas) it is really not any better than any of the plastic cases
Click to expand...
Yeah, the BMS, unconnected to anything but the battery, would most likely be just fine through an EMP. The issue would be the transient voltage buildup on long runs of wire. The longer the wire, the higher the buildup.

Even if you protect your system in a properly engineered Faraday cage, the electromagnetic pulse could still find its way in through unprotected wiring, and it's VERY difficult, as well as expensive, to put EMP rated surge arrestors on every part of the system. Possible, sure, but it would probably be cheaper just to have a second system unplugged in a metal storage box for backup.
 
Nuclear EMP will not affect batteries.. but the EMP could damage any electronics which control or manage the battery.

Your lithium cells, as well as any other battery chemistry, will be just fine so long as the fried BMS connected to them doesn't do something stupid when it gets zapped.
 
A.Justice said:
Yeah, the BMS, unconnected to anything but the battery, would most likely be just fine through an EMP. The issue would be the transient voltage buildup on long runs of wire. The longer the wire, the higher the buildup.

Even if you protect your system in a properly engineered Faraday cage, the electromagnetic pulse could still find its way in through unprotected wiring, and it's VERY difficult, as well as expensive, to put EMP rated surge arrestors on every part of the system. Possible, sure, but it would probably be cheaper just to have a second system unplugged in a metal storage box for backup.
Click to expand...
EMP Pulses come in two forms: 1) Conductive 2) Radiative.

The conductive component is easy to stop.. you just need a surge protector with nanosecond response time. The Siemens FS140 can stop the conductive pulse without hardly breaking a sweat.

The problem is the radiative component of a nuclear EMP. This is because the radiateve part directly couples into circuit boards and can't be stopped by anything short of a Faraday cage.

When it comes to Nuclear EMP's, neither the conductive pulse or the radiative part will harm any battery chemistry I'm aware of, but it could harm the battery management system of a lithium ion battery or a charger/charge controller connected to any battery..

The radiative pulse of a Nuclear EMP is very similar to the high voltage static shock you sometimes get on dry days when you shuffle across your carpet. The pulse is very high voltage, but very short lived.. it only affects tiny transistors, and it can burn them out whether they are being used or not.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Nuclear EMP will not affect batteries.. but the EMP could damage any electronics which control or manage the battery.

Your lithium cells, as well as any other battery chemistry, will be just fine so long as the fried BMS connected to them doesn't do something stupid when it gets zapped.
Click to expand...
Might be wise to keep a spare BMS in a metal case then I guess?
 
ed6269 said:
Might be wise to keep a spare BMS in a metal case then I guess?
Click to expand...
Absolutely..
We keep a spare BMS, spare charge controllers, spare inverters, and even 5kW of solar panels in Faraday cages of various ratings. Our electronics are behind 3 and 4 layers (160db of attenuation) and our extra panels are behind 1 layer.

Not even the hot-spot of a Super EMP weapon is going to get through 160db of protection.. It has almost no chance of getting through 80db let alone 160.

Its an expensive proposition to have all that money tied up in extra equipment.. but since I use $40 flip phones and wear my cloths out until they have holes in them, we could afford the extra expense. We keep multimeters in there, HAM radios, antenna tuners, medical devices, laptops, USB drives, etc.
Probably all a waste of money.. but no different than any insurance policy that never gets used.
 
If a nuclear EMP hits you batteries will be the least of your problems.
We have long passed the age when one or two bombs would hit. Any attack would release hundreds to thousand of war heads from both sides and possibly other sides. I would spend my time thinking about lightning damage as that is the most likely problem you will ever have.
 
Last edited:
robby said:
If a nuclear EMP hits you batteries will be the least of your problems.
We have long passed the age when one or two bombs would hit. Any attack would release hundreds to thousand of war heads from both sides and possibly other sides. I would spend my time thinking about lightning damage as that is the most likely problem you will have.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree I have stated on this thread the event I am talking about is a solar event. I n a nuclear event I really don't want to survive.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Absolutely..
We keep a spare BMS, spare charge controllers, spare inverters, and even 5kW of solar panels in Faraday cages of various ratings. Our electronics are behind 3 and 4 layers (160db of attenuation) and our extra panels are behind 1 layer.

Not even the hot-spot of a Super EMP weapon is going to get through 160db of protection.. It has almost no chance of getting through 80db let alone 160.

Its an expensive proposition to have all that money tied up in extra equipment.. but since I use $40 flip phones and wear my cloths out until they have holes in them, we could afford the extra expense. We keep multimeters in there, HAM radios, antenna tuners, medical devices, laptops, USB drives, etc.
Probably all a waste of money.. but no different than any insurance policy that never gets used.
Click to expand...
I have about 2000 watts of solar panels stored in a metal shipping container, do you think they would survive a solar EMP .
And from what I have researched (and that's not much) solar panels are pretty durable when its a solar event even when hooked up during the event.
I also have an 8.8kw grid tied system I don't hold out much hope that the electronics would survive but what about the panels?
What do you think?
 
ed6269 said:
I have about 2000 watts of solar panels stored in a metal shipping container, do you think they would survive a solar EMP .
And from what I have researched (and that's not much) solar panels are pretty durable when its a solar event even when hooked up during the event.
I also have an 8.8kw grid tied system I don't hold out much hope that the electronics would survive but what about the panels?
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Afaik solar EMP is only a problem for very large scale installations: mostly national power grid. Anything with only tens of feet cable connected is unaffected.
 
MattiFin said:
Afaik solar EMP is only a problem for very large scale installations: mostly national power grid. Anything with only tens of feet cable connected is unaffected.
Click to expand...
Oh wow that good to hear ,do you think the electronics on the grid tied system would survive a solar EMP.
And thank you for all you input and opinions they sound vary knowledgeable.
 
ed6269 said:
I have about 2000 watts of solar panels stored in a metal shipping container, do you think they would survive a solar EMP .
And from what I have researched (and that's not much) solar panels are pretty durable when its a solar event even when hooked up during the event.
I also have an 8.8kw grid tied system I don't hold out much hope that the electronics would survive but what about the panels?
What do you think?
Click to expand...

Solar EMP is purely conductive, there is no radiative component to it so anything not plugged into grid power isn't going to be harmed. The term "solar EMP" is actually inaccurate because its not really a pulse, its a wave.. It is slow and lazy and we have lots of time to react to it.
Your car will still run, your phone will still turn on.. although your gas will eventually run out and the cell tower will probably be toast, your electronics won't be harmed.

Solar panels are generally an unknown.. it is thought that panels which are just sitting on a shelf will be mostly immune to a nuclear EMP, but even that bit of information is subject to debate.

Most EMP testing has been done based on the data from the StarFish Prime experiments in the mid 1900's when the USA and Russia detonated thermonuclear weapons at high altitudes.. thing is, those bombs were standard warheads, and they were not specifically designed to be EMP weapons.

Solar panels are an unknown, but the part that we think we know is that they are not as sensitive as other semiconductors and it is thought that they won't be harmed so much.

Your shipping container will provide about 15db of shielding.. which is better than nothing, but not as good as a 40db trash can sealed up with tape.
I would suggest you bundle the panels up, tape some garbage bags around them for insulation, then a layer of heavy duty tinfoil all the way around.. Just use some packing tape and generous overlapping of the foil..
 
MurphyGuy said:
Solar EMP is purely conductive, there is no radiative component to it so anything not plugged into grid power isn't going to be harmed. The term "solar EMP" is actually inaccurate because its not really a pulse, its a wave.. It is slow and lazy and we have lots of time to react to it.
Your car will still run, your phone will still turn on.. although your gas will eventually run out and the cell tower will probably be toast, your electronics won't be harmed.

Solar panels are generally an unknown.. it is thought that panels which are just sitting on a shelf will be mostly immune to a nuclear EMP, but even that bit of information is subject to debate.

Most EMP testing has been done based on the data from the StarFish Prime experiments in the mid 1900's when the USA and Russia detonated thermonuclear weapons at high altitudes.. thing is, those bombs were standard warheads, and they were not specifically designed to be EMP weapons.

Solar panels are an unknown, but the part that we think we know is that they are not as sensitive as other semiconductors and it is thought that they won't be harmed so much.

Your shipping container will provide about 15db of shielding.. which is better than nothing, but not as good as a 40db trash can sealed up with tape.
I would suggest you bundle the panels up, tape some garbage bags around them for insulation, then a layer of heavy duty tinfoil all the way around.. Just use some packing tape and generous overlapping of the foil..
Click to expand...
You are awesome, thanks
 
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