diy solar

diy solar

Looking for a decent inverter

I would suggest you look at what this inverter will be running - ie the loads.
you are just starting out, you want to see what a small system can do and learn.
The 1200W inverter will likely charge up your phone run a small item or some lights ?
Maybe you will load test what it can run -ie try making coffee with the Keurig at 1450W? (technically beyond the capacity of a 1200W inverter some can do it though).
A cheapie 1200W inverter shouldn't be run above 80% of the rated capacity too long, it you want it to last.
For a small system I would look at 150A ANL fuse and holder, between the battery and the inverter, and use short 1AWG or 1/0 cable just for 'fooling around' while you play with it and learn.
These sizes of fuse and cables are available at all the auto supply shops in pre-made easy to use cables with terminals already on them for low cost, no need to own a crimper, or have on hand a selection of ring terminal sizes etc.
When you catch the bug and start to expand into a bigger system you will want to use higher voltages, bigger cables, Class T fuses, etc but for learning on a 1200W inverter, and keeping costs to a minimum, I think you will be fine with 1AWG and ANL fuse.
up to you: your stuff, your money, your decision.
 
OffGridForGood said:
I would suggest you look at what this inverter will be running - ie the loads.
you are just starting out, you want to see what a small system can do and learn.
The 1200W inverter will likely charge up your phone run a small item or some lights ?
Maybe you will load test what it can run -ie try making coffee with the Keurig at 1450W? (technically beyond the capacity of a 1200W inverter some can do it though).
A cheapie 1200W inverter shouldn't be run above 80% of the rated capacity too long, it you want it to last.
For a small system I would look at 150A ANL fuse and holder, between the battery and the inverter, and use short 1AWG or 1/0 cable just for 'fooling around' while you play with it and learn.
These sizes of fuse and cables are available at all the auto supply shops in pre-made easy to use cables with terminals already on them for low cost, no need to own a crimper, or have on hand a selection of ring terminal sizes etc.
When you catch the bug and start to expand into a bigger system you will want to use higher voltages, bigger cables, Class T fuses, etc but for learning on a 1200W inverter, and keeping costs to a minimum, I think you will be fine with 1AWG and ANL fuse.
up to you: your stuff, your money, your decision.
Click to expand...
Cool...I like your answer. Is the Ampeak 1200W a decent pure sine wave inverter?
 
French_guy said:
Cool...I like your answer. Is the Ampeak 1200W a decent pure sine wave inverter?
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, Supervstech has a bullet-proof suggestion, that would definitely be safe, and last, I just suggest the smaller wire and fuse for anticipated smaller loads...and learning about solar on a budget.

I know nothing about the Ampeak unit, I was expecting my nudge to @12VoltInstalls would result in his input, since 12-volt is his domain (LOL).
I have a couple small inverters for my quad and my truck, these are the ones branded 'champion' sold at HomeDepot and CanadianTire stores (yeah that is a Canadian thing, sorry) I expect these are all re-branded stuff from some OEM in China anyway.
All the small cheap DC inverters claim 'pure sine wave' likely not really,
all will have significant standby current draw while they are switched on,
all will be best run at 70-80% of rated capacity max (from my own experience)

If you want something that will work, and you can play around with, go for it.
I suspect later on you will move up into bigger power, and want better equipment, or an AIO, the small inverter will still be handy for stuff.
Like I said, I have one wired to my quad so I can run a drill or a 4-1/2" angle grinder, or dremel (not a skillsaw or electric chainsaw though) it is very handy to have a bit of 120v AC available just about anywhere the quad could be.
 
Last edited:
French_guy said:
So assuming the voltage goes as low as 10V, then it becomes 1200/10=120A
120 x 1.25 = 150A
Are you saying I should double the 120A and use a 240A fuse?
Click to expand...
Ok, let me clarify.
The fuse is not there to protect your inverter.
It is there for when the inverter fails spectacularly and protects the wire you choose to use.
Batteries can output MASSIVE current when shorted out...
Ignore the amps needed by the device.
Size the fuse to the wire, and size the wire for surge function at lowest battery output.
10V seems fair, but you need to acknowledge the efficiency of the inverter.
1200W output means the battery is seeing 1500W of drain.
1500W at 10V is 150A, now a cheapo inverter really doesn't have any surge capability. A quality one Does... and it can be A LOT...
Say, three times rated load for several minutes...
So, the 150A load could jump to 450A with the unexpected motor starting...
You don't want THAT being pulled on #4 copper.
I would use 1/0 minimum. To keep voltage drop and wattage loss to a minimum.
12V systems REALLY need large conductors.
Let's say 200A to be safe, the cable can handle that at 105C for a few minutes, and the fuse can prevent copper failure if it goes on for long...
A large fuse won't reduce the wattage like a small one will.
 
OffGridForGood said:
Don't get me wrong, Supervstech has a bullet-proof suggestion, that would definitely be safe, and last, I just suggest the smaller wire and fuse for anticipated smaller loads...and learning about solar on a budget.

I know nothing about the Ampeak unit, I was expecting my nudge to @12VoltInstalls would result in his input, since 12-volt is his domain (LOL).
I have a couple small inverters for my quad and my truck, these are the ones branded 'champion' sold at HomeDepot and CanadianTire stores (yeah that is a Canadian thing, sorry) I expect these are all re-branded stuff from some OEM in China anyway.
All the small cheap DC inverters claim 'pure sine wave' likely not really,
all will have significant standby current draw while they are switched on,
all will be best run at 70-80% of rated capacity max (from my own experience)

If you want something that will work, and you can play around with, go for it.
I suspect later on you will move up into bigger power, and want better equipment, or an AIO, the small inverter will still be handy for stuff.
Like I said, I have one wired to my quad so I can run a drill or a 4-1/2" angle grinder, or dremel (not a skillsaw or electric chainsaw though) it is very handy to have a bit of 120v AC available just about anywhere the quad could be.
Click to expand...
Heh...
I wish I took more pictures of thw solar trailer I upgraded to 13000W output...

I went a little overkill.
Class T fuses, 4/0 cables everywhere, AND 165A DC disconnect rated circuit breakers...

But hey... I installed 600Ah @ 48V...
 
Supervstech said:
Heh...
I wish I took more pictures of thw solar trailer I upgraded to 13000W output...

I went a little overkill.
Class T fuses, 4/0 cables everywhere, AND 165A DC disconnect rated circuit breakers...

But hey... I installed 600Ah @ 48V...
Click to expand...
Wow!, that's a lot of battery for a trailer. I'm picturing my friends 1100 ah 24 volt battery. Just a bit smaller than yours. Consists of 12, 2 volt, 1100 ah Fullriver L-16"s Thats not quite a ton of lead. ???️‍♂️?️‍♀️
 
littleharbor2 said:
Wow!, that's a lot of battery for a trailer. I'm picturing my friends 1100 ah 24 volt battery. Just a bit smaller than yours. Consists of 12, 2 volt, 1100 ah Fullriver L-16"s Thats not quite a ton of lead. ???️‍♂️?️‍♀️
Click to expand...
Yuck!
I went all LFP in my build...
Still a huge bank.
 
OffGridForGood said:
I would suggest you look at what this inverter will be running - ie the loads.
you are just starting out, you want to see what a small system can do and learn.
The 1200W inverter will likely charge up your phone run a small item or some lights ?
Maybe you will load test what it can run -ie try making coffee with the Keurig at 1450W? (technically beyond the capacity of a 1200W inverter some can do it though).
A cheapie 1200W inverter shouldn't be run above 80% of the rated capacity too long, it you want it to last.
For a small system I would look at 150A ANL fuse and holder, between the battery and the inverter, and use short 1AWG or 1/0 cable just for 'fooling around' while you play with it and learn.
These sizes of fuse and cables are available at all the auto supply shops in pre-made easy to use cables with terminals already on them for low cost, no need to own a crimper, or have on hand a selection of ring terminal sizes etc.
When you catch the bug and start to expand into a bigger system you will want to use higher voltages, bigger cables, Class T fuses, etc but for learning on a 1200W inverter, and keeping costs to a minimum, I think you will be fine with 1AWG and ANL fuse.
up to you: your stuff, your money, your decision.
Click to expand...
Is this a valid option as well (fuse and also a switch)?
Or they need to be separated (150A ANL fuse + battery switch) like this one for example:
 
French_guy said:
Are modified sine wave inverters really bad for AC motors such as sump pumps?
Click to expand...
I burned up several things including a high-res monitor on a mod sine inverter. And I knew better, spun the wheel… and lost. This was like 25 years ago and haven’t bought a stepped-sine since. Some stuff just doesn’t like that 160V wave peak, and there’s math loss driving a pump with square wave that doesn’t help.

ALWAYS buy pure sine (which sometimes isn’t anyway) unless you’re running a pure resistance load like a coffeemaker or simple space heater without a fan motor.
OffGridForGood said:
know nothing about the Ampeak unit, I was expecting my nudge to @12VoltInstalls would result in his input, since 12-volt is his domain (LOL).
Click to expand...
I know nothing of ampeak

I do know that on the ‘cheap’ shelves that both Giandel and QZRELB/Reliable put out without failure over several years of service. And the MPPSolar AIO has been awesome.

I’d just buy expensive stuff and be happy or buy known lower-shelf products that have good reputations. My Reliable 2000W and the Giandel have nice soft-start features built in, and my meter got to 2300W for 10-seconds or so with a bunch of electric resistance heaters on the Reliable for a fun test. And the 1200W Giandel started a fridge I had where my clamp meter soared a second somewhere over 2000W (numbers too fast to actually read) every time it started up and never shut down.

I also used 2/0 on the 1200W and still on the 2000W.

I hope that answers your questions some
Supervstech said:
The fuse is not there to protect your inverter.
It is there for when the inverter fails spectacularly and protects the wire you choose to use.
Batteries can output MASSIVE current when shorted out...
Ignore the amps needed by the device.
Size the fuse to the wire, and size the wire for surge function at lowest battery output.
Click to expand...
this is important

Another FWIW… if the wire can do 300A but the inverter or whatever load can only do, say, 180A; I would fuse at ~200A just because if the load- whatever it is- has a bad hair day I want to cut it off with a sacrificial fuse rather than ‘potentially’ sustain a 250A fire starter. Just like a breaker after an inverter output: a 30A 120VAC breaker will NEVER trip with a 2000W inverter.

So yes, fuses and breakers ‘protect the wire,’ but I couldn’t care less about the wire:! I don’t want the whole place to burn down.

Not countering @Supervstech by any stretch, no dispute. He’s more competent than I for sure.
It’s just that it has just bothered my head the number of situations the last six months where I’ve seen fuses or breakers so far in excess of any normal amp output potential of the system- which means other than a higher-capacity low ohm short the protection will never get disconnected.
That’s all I’m saying: think about how and why you protect your stuff.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
I burned up several things including a high-res monitor on a mod sine inverter. And I knew better, spun the wheel… and lost. This was like 25 years ago and haven’t bought a stepped-sine since. Some stuff just doesn’t like that 160V wave peak, and there’s math loss driving a pump with square wave that doesn’t help.

ALWAYS buy pure sine (which sometimes isn’t anyway) unless you’re running a pure resistance load like a coffeemaker or simple space heater without a fan motor.

I know nothing of ampeak

I do know that on the ‘cheap’ shelves that both Giandel and QZRELB/Reliable put out without failure over several years of service. And the MPPSolar AIO has been awesome.

I’d just buy expensive stuff and be happy or buy known lower-shelf products that have good reputations. My Reliable 2000W and the Giandel have nice soft-start features built in, and my meter got to 2300W for 10-seconds or so with a bunch of electric resistance heaters on the Reliable for a fun test. And the 1200W Giandel started a fridge I had where my clamp meter soared a second somewhere over 2000W (numbers too fast to actually read) every time it started up and never shut down.

I also used 2/0 on the 1200W and still on the 2000W.

I hope that answers your questions some

this is important

Another FWIW… if the wire can do 300A but the inverter or whatever load can only do, say, 180A; I would fuse at ~200A just because if the load- whatever it is- has a bad hair day I want to cut it off with a sacrificial fuse rather than ‘potentially’ sustain a 250A fire starter. Just like a breaker after an inverter output: a 30A 120VAC breaker will NEVER trip with a 2000W inverter.

So yes, fuses and breakers ‘protect the wire,’ but I couldn’t care less about the wire:! I don’t want the whole place to burn down.

Not countering @Supervstech by any stretch, no dispute. He’s more competent than I for sure.
It’s just that it has just bothered my head the number of situations the last six months where I’ve seen fuses or breakers so far in excess of any normal amp output potential of the system- which means other than a higher-capacity low ohm short the protection will never get disconnected.
That’s all I’m saying: think about how and why you protect your stuff.
Click to expand...
Harbor Freight sells 3ft 2/0 wires......might go that route
I also see an Amazon some 1/0 wires, that can be 5/16 lugs both ends or 3/8 lugs both ends or a mix 5/16 and 3/8.......
What is the "standard"?
 
French_guy said:
Harbor Freight sells 3ft 2/0 wires......might go that route
I also see an Amazon some 1/0 wires, that can be 5/16 lugs both ends or 3/8 lugs both ends or a mix 5/16 and 3/8.......
What is the "standard"?
Click to expand...
That's about the only thing in solar I ever recommend to people at work, all the rest of our solar stuff at HF is over priced for what it is by a lot.

1/4" ~ 6mm
5/16" ~ 7mm
3/8" ~ 8mm
You'll have to look at the bolt size but I believe M8 is the "standard" out there. The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. ?
 
Rednecktek said:
That's about the only thing in solar I ever recommend to people at work, all the rest of our solar stuff at HF is over priced for what it is by a lot.

1/4" ~ 6mm
5/16" ~ 7mm
3/8" ~ 8mm
You'll have to look at the bolt size but I believe M8 is the "standard" out there. The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. ?
Click to expand...
The HF 45 watt" starter set" of thin film panels used to be a good deal, even if they were crap panels. Solar panels now are cheaper, and HF isn't such a good deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Eco Worthy 1100W Off Grid Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12V to 220V
Replies
1
Views
259
adamantium
A
W
72VDC Lion (NOT LiFePO4) 4kW batteries on tap, looking for a solar solution to charge them.
Replies
10
Views
309
HarryN
H
R
Looking for a 12V 1500W~2000W Pure Sine Wave inverter under $300
Replies
9
Views
756
hugemoth
H
D
Inverter causing line noise?
Replies
5
Views
368
AlpineJoe
AlpineJoe
Rednecktek
Little inverter rec needed
Replies
8
Views
278
marionw
M
Back
Top