I Want to Know Why...?

chrisblessing said:

Please research the meaning of "libel".

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You don't need to be insulting. If you can't answer the question, then don't reply. Quote it if you think I have the wrong legal definition. Please note what state you are using in your definition if yours includes limitations for forum moderation.

chrisblessing said:

Please research the meaning of "libel". Libel is committed by the original poster. Unless the post has been edited in such a way as to defame another, the post is not libelous.

If we want more precision regarding the original post, we should be [EXPLICIT DELETE] censorship, not libel.

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Censorship would be the removal of the post, or an explicit delete, such as above, where content has clearly been removed from its context.

Don't diverge to avoid defining libel if you are going to patronize what I said. I'm very clearly talking about altering words in a way where the public has no clear reason to believe the OP didn't say those words.

erik.calco said:

Censorship would be the removal of the post, or an explicit delete, such as above, where content has clearly been removed from its context.

Don't diverge to avoid defining libel if you are going to patronize what I said. I'm very clearly talking about altering words in a way where the public has no clear reason to believe the OP didn't say those words.

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OK

Rider said:

There are some things that SHOULD be discussed in private, that have no place in an open forum. I believe that the OP should have taken that route first.

But I'm obviously in the minority here, so I have no further comments.

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Really? Wow. Who should I have taken it to?

As to swear words...
Using them when you get pinched or zapped is entirely different that using them when complaining about products or services.

While we are adults, and we sometimes use them for emphasis, there are some that just plain shouldn't be in print...
Freedom of speech comes with a responsibility to NOT abuse that Constitutional Right.
There is an issue of showing some respect for the forum owner/operator/staff.
Again, don't abuse the Right...

Content/Meaning...
While stating you had issues with this or that company/product, ligitimate complaints,
(I had the hardest damned time getting customer service on the phone)

And just flat insulting product/company for the sake of cussing.
(That SOB couldn't make a f*****g widget because the inbred m***** f***** doesn't have opposable thumbs)
Nobody wants to read that, not even me and I was in the Marines for 16 years!
Ever hear the term 'Swear like a sailor' and wonder where it comes from?...

Written, it just doesn't carry the same impact, and generally make the writer look like a ranting hot head with no vocabulary.

Instead of calling someone an SOB (spelled out) instead try "While his mother ran along barking in protest"...
Turn the phrase instead of clubbing someone with it.

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I don't agree with changing content,
Trying to get a point across over the internet is difficult since it's delivered flat.
While MANY get exercise jumping to conclusions, it's better just to ask for clarification...

I recently wrote, "I'll never get rich because I have morals/ethics that won't allow it"
That was INSTANTLY taken as a class warfare attack on anyone 'Rich', and BOY did the insults roll in!
I work manually for a living, I refuse to pay starvation wages to employees, so therefore what *Could* be profits I keep go out in wages/benefits.
Since I don't have some super power or skill set that makes insane amounts of money, it's not like I'm not competing with everyone else in my field...

Now, if I were exceptional in any way and could charge what I wanted, things might be different, but being who I am and nothing special, I'm never getting rich...
What I wrote wasn't what they read, and instead of clarification, they chose to attack...
More words to attack than to ask for clarification, but insulting and attacking are pretty well status-quo for the internet...

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*Some* posters need an edit.
PLEASE ORGANIZE!

List components.
List objectives.
Leave out the rambling life stories when it's a technical question.

Technical types tend to be very organized in though patterns, we get sidetracked with side stories and loose focus, which leads to no reply or mixed results.
(I know because I ramble myself, and yes, you CAN confuse yourself!)

Reread and edit before the 'Post' button gets pushed...

Ped said:

This forum has been great. A few head butts when I first joined but thats not too bad. The WORST attitude a place can take is "this is my forum love it or leave it" where challenging, politely, the resident "experts" (egomaniacs) gets you in the crosshairs.
You dont know from one day to the next if youre going to be banned for a joke or something.

Such as a certain cheap rv'ing place santa knows about...

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Ain't that the truth brother!

"I'm here 24/7 to beat everyone into MY FOLLOWERS, follow or leave!" Types are rampant!
"Everyone else are idiots" types are pretty common too.

I'm glad I'm 'No body' so I can just put them on 'Ignore'...

The idea that this forum is for Will's personal profit is categorically untrue. Will has the spirit of a teacher, and he makes complicated topics easy to understand. That's why he made the forum, and that's why you joined it. Keeping things civil becomes more important as the group grows, in order to maintain that spirit. I have not received any direction from Will or any other mods other than to keep things civil and watch out for spam. That's it. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't volunteer. That's how you should see the moderators-as volunteers. We get no extra perks or special access to Will, or anything like that. From what I have seen, all of the "staff" are in it for the love of the spirit of a smart and helplul forum, nothing more. Posts that do not advance us towards that goal should expect to be removed/edited to accurately reflect it.

I do not have access to anyone's private messages, nor have I seen evidence that anyone else does.

I would add that if you think you don't have freedom of speech here, please note that this is post #48 on a thread created to complain about moderating. Nuff said.

New Mexico Will said:

The idea that this forum is for Will's personal profit is categorically untrue. Will has the spirit of a teacher, and he makes complicated topics easy to understand. That's why he made the forum, and that's why you joined it. Keeping things civil becomes more important as the group grows, in order to maintain that spirit. I have not received any direction from Will or any other mods other than to keep things civil and watch out for spam. That's it. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't volunteer. That's how you should see the moderators-as volunteers. We get no extra perks or special access to Will, or anything like that. From what I have seen, all of the "staff" are in it for the love of the spirit of a smart and helpful forum, nothing more. Posts that do not advance us towards that goal should expect to be removed/edited to accurately reflect it.

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The reason I like, support and trust @Will Prowse is because, to my knowledge, he has been transparent and honest. I have zero problem with him increasing profit from the forum increasing traffic to affiliate links. This doesn't mean there aren't other benevolent reasons for creating the forum. I believe he likes helping people, and is genuinely excited about people receiving help. You can have both a for-profit motive and benevolent motive. I personally am very proud of how he has built a career for himself online and how he helps people.

If you want to speak well of Will, boast his honesty, transparency and perseverance to better himself and learn. These are things we've all witnessed over years of his videos that have earned him the highest respect.

Likewise, if you want to be the best mod you can be above reproach, be honest and transparent. Foster open dialog. Be empathetic to people's concerns and don't be quick to judge. The role of a leader is to bring the best out of others, to help them reach their potential.

When I mentor people, the measure of success is when they rise to become greater than I in the area I mentored them in. People have often approached me asking me if I was threatened by a student become better than me with a skill. The opposite was true. I could not of been prouder and happier, and felt more like I succeeded when seeing a student reach their potential.

erik.calco said:

The reason I like, support and trust @Will Prowse is because, to my knowledge, he has been transparent and honest. I have zero problem with him increasing profit from the forum increasing traffic to affiliate links. This doesn't mean there aren't other benevolent reasons for creating the forum. I believe he likes helping people, and is genuinely excited about people receiving help. You can have both a for-profit motive and benevolent motive. I personally am very proud of how he has built a career for himself online and how he helps people.

If you want to speak well of Will, boast his honesty, transparency and perseverance to better himself and learn. These are things we've all witnessed over years of his videos that have earned him the highest respect.

Likewise, if you want to be the best mod you can be above reproach, be honest and transparent. Foster open dialog. Be empathetic to people's concerns and don't be quick to judge. The role of a leader is to bring the best out of others, to help them reach their potential.

When I mentor people, the measure of success is when they rise to become greater than I in the area I mentored them in. People have often approached me asking me if I was threatened by a student become better than me with a skill. The opposite was true. I could not of been prouder and happier, and felt more like I succeeded than seeing a student reach their potential.

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Yes, well said, beginning to end. I should have said that I don't belive profit wasn't the REASON he started the forum.

Just a semi random thought.
Being "civil and having civility" in an open forum is important an sometimes that means keeping things calm... We all know the poisons like Politics, Race, Religion and so on can go toxic instantly and ruin a good "community". And I think everyone has covered the other stuff fairly well...

Regarding Will and his efforts, I applaud him for doing what he is doing and his passion for it, it's easy to see he likes doing this. He isn't waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror going, Ohhh crap, another damned day at the office, crap I hate this friggin job... He's spending a lot of hours doing teardowns, his video's, administering this forum and maintaining the website +. He's also doing "work" consulting etc... AND now he's also spending his monies on equipment and tearing it apart. I see no problem with him benefitting by getting some funds from the affiliate links, his book and various other sundries. I support him & this site for doing so in my own way because it's helping other's gain some freedom & independence by sharing what we have learned with everyone freely.

ENTHUSIASM!
Will has Enthusiasm for the subject.
He's not a particular 'Fan Boy' or product/brand shill.

If he makes money from HIS efforts, he did the work taking things apart, putting things together, making and editing the videos, etc.
That's HIS work product, he didn't beg money to do those things, and most people have NO IDEA how time consuming (and frustrating) all that is...

As for the forum,
Again, a TON of headaches, from copyrights to domain registration/placement/redirection,
OR,
You PAY someone/some company to do that for your.
Then there is server space... Again not cheap.
And the forum software is CO$TLY, and maintaining/operating it a full time job in itself...

Lastly, you pay for every other kind of entertainment, education...
From 'How To' articles in books, text books, internet connections, sitting through commercials, suffering though endless crackpots & cranks looking for something specific, etc.

*IF* you CHOOSE to buy a book, or throw a few bucks (cheese burger money) at the site, that's ENTIRELY a personal choice and none of anyone else's business...
After the IRS & my wife, NO ONE gets a say in how I spend my pocket change.

AND, we get back around to Will and what he's done,
It's a CRAP TON of work, as in work product, he deserves SOMETHING for it, even if it's recognition of how much time/energy he put into it!
(But cheeseburger money would be better... Young men go through a lot of cheeseburgers! )

Since you brought the subject up, I have never questioned Will's motives for creating this site or anything else. I am very grateful for him and the forum, the information I have learned, and for many of the people here. I think he has every right to profit from what he does too. (I used to make videos, research, edit, etc.) I know how much work goes in, and Will SHOULD profit from his efforts/materials/time, etc. I do not believe he is being less than honest in his reviews either. He's not out e-begging. HE created his business, and for that, I am proud of him and I support him. Just my two cents on the subject...

I do not think Will started this site to make money AT ALL. Most sites make money through advertisers, and he has made this site with NO ads...makes it much nicer for the users. Some other sites it's a full time job Xing out all the pop up ads that keep appearing as you're trying to use the site.