New Growatt hybrid inverter SPH10000TL- HU-US split phase

[MajicDiver]

Also what level of off-grid are folks on this forum putting it through?

None, it’s not for sell yet…….
Based on my experience with the MIN, I personally expect it to be robust.

 

[zanydroid]

None, it’s not for sell yet…….
Based on my experience with the MIN, I personally expect it to be robust.

Oh OK. I was actually referring to the previous adjacent models in the MIN lineup.

It's also possible that it is just for random reasons that things like SRNE10K and 6000XP have more mindshare on here than the MIN line.

Though... is this the first MIN inverter with 120/240? The 120/240 in a single box seem to be fashionable on the forum of late. A stackable 120/240 10K of any sort would potentially be exciting to those folks waiting for a stackable 10K 120/240 inverter.

 

[MajicDiver]

not allowed to run generator for off-grid unlike the homesteading folks here.

I’m off grid since last summer and have not needed generator. I don’t expect to need a generator except if I have multiple solar system component failures. If I do need to use my generator for real I have to do that manually, which is how I want it.

 

[MajicDiver]

Though... is this the first MIN inverter with 120/240?

No clue what you are referring to?

 

[zanydroid]

No clue what you are referring to?

Oops I thought this thread was about the MIN inverters. I scrolled up and noticed this is SPH. I think both were mentioned at various times.

Some of the older ones Growatt was selling as respectable UL9540 components were 240V and needed external autotransformers / janky ATS. There's another one that needs a MID to create emergency power

Growatt is certainly getting a better / more diverse productline.

 

[kscessnadriver]

I’m not sure what your reasoning is for this statement? It seems to me it’s very suitable for both off grid and gridtied or a combination of both. Only thing l don’t like ( if I was interested in actually buying one or more I’d look a lot harder though) is it’s not able to use high voltage battery.

1. It’s able to do 10kW, gridtied output or backup output. You can stack up to 3. That’s a lot of PV and battery input capability.

2. It is intended to be used with a generator if that is desired. There is a separate document on using a generator. First link:
blob:https://community.growatt.com/e854c938-4eb9-431f-8c8b-5b51b8d7962e
Edit: link not working, it’s the attached PDF below.
3. It can be ac coupled with another inverter of a different type, as many people are doing and most inverters like this are capable of.

4. It does split phase. I don’t like that because that makes it heavy. I prefer a separate auto transformer. That’s one reason I went with the MIN-US inverters in the first place.

5. If you read pages 49-51, you will see you can make it do pretty much whatever you want with respect to where PV, battery and grid power goes, just as is the case with the MIN-US.

The datasheet is here:

https://us.growatt.com/upload/file/SPH_10000TL-HU-US_Datasheet_EN_202307.pdf

The note about generator AC output of less than 10kW is odd to me. Maybe it means per inverter, but it doesn't make sense to have a small generator on a system like this.

 

[zanydroid]

The note about generator AC output of less than 10kW is odd to me. Maybe it means per inverter, but it doesn't make sense to have a small generator on a system like this.

I think a 10kW generator probably gets pretty far. One might use the 30kW inverter stack to get more MPPTs or more surge / short term high loads.

If you're really running a >10kW generator continuously, you are going to need a lot of fuel.

 

[MajicDiver]

components were 240V and needed external autotransformers

Some of us, me, prefer a separate auto transformer, that’s one reason why I would prefer the MIn-US inverters I have over the new SPH, as I stated somewhere above.

Also, auto transfer to backup from grid is needless complexity some people, like me, don’t want.

In my case with the MIN inverters, we are normally off grid, and if necessary I can manually go back gridtied if the grid is up, or use a generator if it’s not and both of my inverters croak at the same time for some reason. I have a spare auto transformer also, currently not installed but in a month or so it will be installed and able to be placed in service by shutting breaker.

 

[MajicDiver]

The note about generator AC output of less than 10kW is odd to me. Maybe it means per inverter,

I don’t think it’s odd, couple of things:
1) it’s certainly per inverter.
2) pay close attention to the choice of words “integrated with inverter “. Of course, a single inverter can only handle 10kW, wether it’s from generator or grid pass thru. However, you could put the generator between the grid and the inverter, it would not be integrated with the inverter but if it were a large generator it would supply the grid-side house load and feed through the inverter to the loads on the other side. The inverter is very flexible, to the point of being confusing until you understand that you can do it a lot of different ways, depending on your needs. Same idea with the MIN-US Version 2, it can be used a lot of different ways.

 

[zanydroid]

Also, auto transfer to backup from grid is needless complexity some people, like me, don’t want.

If you're mostly off-grid and not planning to transition all the time (like I've considered in my living situation), then that makes sense.

With a lot of transitions (perhaps even daily in the winter), the sync'ing capability (or rather lack thereof) of some of the Growatt inverters is not good.

Which autotransformers do you use? I'm thinking of stocking a spare to boost some of my 120V equipment to 120/240.

 

[kscessnadriver]

I don’t think it’s odd, couple of things:
1) it’s certainly per inverter.
2) pay close attention to the choice of words “integrated with inverter “. Of course, a single inverter can only handle 10kW, wether it’s from generator or grid pass thru. However, you could put the generator between the grid and the inverter, it would not be integrated with the inverter but if it were a large generator it would supply the grid-side house load and feed through the inverter to the loads on the other side. The inverter is very flexible, to the point of being confusing until you understand that you can do it a lot of different ways, depending on your needs. Same idea with the MIN-US Version 2, it can be used a lot of different ways.

I would probably set the generator up to feed into a power distribution block, which then feeds into the inverters, like how a lot of the Solark installers roll with a generator install

 

[MajicDiver]

Which autotransformers do you use?

Attached photo shows the 10kW auto transformer I installed in spring 2022 to feed what was then my critical loads panel. It now serves the whole home. I wish I had bought two of them because that company is not selling into US anymore. I recently bought the 11.4kW Growatt auto transformer and when I install it will either remove the ATS relays or perhaps bypass them. I much prefer the YUTUO transformer.

 

[1201]

I think a 10kW generator probably gets pretty far. One might use the 30kW inverter stack to get more MPPTs or more surge / short term high loads.

If you're really running a >10kW generator continuously, you are going to need a lot of fuel.

Yeah that's strange since the gen port supports 80a(19.2kw)

 

[MajicDiver]

Yeah that's strange since the gen port supports 80a(19.2kw)

Where in the manual did you see that @1201?
Perhaps page 18 where it lists Growatt’s recommended breaker sizing? That is not the amount of generator power it can take. Just like the load breaker recommended size of 80 amps, the inverter is only capable of a max output current of 50 amps per the data sheet. And same thing with the PV input, max useable is 22amps per string, max short circuit 27 amps, recommended breaker size 30 amps. Those are just recommended breaker amp ratings, in a lot of installations it would be wise to use smaller breakers.

 

[MajicDiver]

the sync'ing capability (or rather lack thereof) of some of the Growatt inverters is not good.

I’m curious what Growatt inverters have this issue? I have not noticed posts on that?
In most such cases the problem is grid voltage and/or improperly setting the voltage limits in the inverter.

 

[1201]

Where in the manual did you see that @1201?
Perhaps page 18 where it lists Growatt’s recommended breaker sizing? That is not the amount of generator power it can take. Just like the load breaker recommended size of 80 amps, the inverter is only capable of a max output current of 50 amps per the data sheet. And same thing with the PV input, max useable is 22amps per string, max short circuit 27 amps, recommended breaker size 30 amps. Those are just recommended breaker amp ratings, in a lot of installations it would be wise to use smaller breakers.

Growatt told me on the phone that it can accept up to 80a of Gen input

When the generator is connected and charging the battery it's also passing through power to support the backup loads so the inverter max output of 10kw does not apply.

 

[zanydroid]

I’m curious what Growatt inverters have this issue? I have not noticed posts on that?
In most such cases the problem is grid voltage and/or improperly setting the voltage limits in the inverter.

There’s no way Growatt can pre-sync on restore of power with the way ATS-U.S. is wired. Unless they put a delay timer into the transfer controller, but it looked like direct wiring from grid to 240V coils on the ATS without a PLC or timer in there.

So as soon as grid power comes back the EPS loads downstream of the ATS-US will get yoinked back on grid. Regardless of the phase / frequency drift to the EPS AC output

With the MID or models where the transfer is internal to the inverter something smarter is possible.

 

[MajicDiver]

Growatt told me on the phone that it can accept up to 80a of Gen input

In that case, one would think an 80 amp breaker is too small.

 

[MajicDiver]

There’s no way Growatt can pre-sync on restore of power with the way ATS-U.S. is wired. Unless they put a delay timer into the transfer controller, but it looked like direct wiring from grid to 240V coils on the ATS without a PLC or timer in there.

So as soon as grid power comes back the EPS loads downstream of the ATS-US will get yoinked back on grid. Regardless of the phase / frequency drift to the EPS AC output

With the MID or models where the transfer is internal to the inverter something smarter is possible.

Had not thought about that….. I feel even better about my decision to stay away from ATS products and make sure my system is sized to not need to go back and forth unless something significant occurs.

 

[1201]

In that case, one would think an 80 amp breaker is too small.

I don't know about breaker sizing. Why would it be too small? I know the luxpower and solark have 90a gen terminals and they are 12kw inverters